Steel Vengeance

GigaG said:

Seriously, the line feels slower than 2 trains did right when they brought them back, and only one variable has really changed. It almost feels like one train...

If you put the FL people in the queue the line would move faster. You have to remember that the line isn't moving 24 people at a time, but more like 12-18 at a time. So the line actually is slower.

Just Coasting said:

It would be nice if they could run the ride at full capacity, that is not a lot to ask. They have been fooling around with this coaster for 2 months, that is plenty of time to get the bugs worked out.

Start making people whole!

Says the man who seems to be consistently two thirds, three quarters, or five eighths.

Just Coasting said:
Start making people whole!

What you need is a catchy slogan and I can help you with that. Try MAWA. Make some hats and put it in your signature. While waiting in line try starting a chant, ”Staple Jason in!, Staple Jason in!”

CP Maverick said:

GigaG said:

Seriously, the line feels slower than 2 trains did right when they brought them back, and only one variable has really changed. It almost feels like one train...

If you put the FL people in the queue the line would move faster. You have to remember that the line isn't moving 24 people at a time, but more like 12-18 at a time. So the line actually is slower.

That is precisely what I was annoyed about.

Let see if I understand this correctly. You work at Cedar Point. You can ride Steal Vengeance any time on your time off. Cedar Point has dedicated ride nights for it's employees.

But yet you complain that Fast Lane customers slow the line down.

^Its just interesting because it's a concrete example of how FL affects the standby line, because with SV we got to see the ride running 2 trains without and with FL just days apart with few other variables changed. Sorry, it was just an observation.

I do think that because SV isn't running at full 3-train capacity yet, that it'd be a good idea to potentially have a time limit between rides on FL+ for it, depending on the relative length of the FL and standby lines. But I'm also not familiar with how long the FL+ line is already, so perhaps that wouldn't help things too much. Obviously, the FL+ line needs to be shorter or else you're ripping off the customers, but if the difference is huge, perhaps the standby line could be sped up a bit.

It'd still be a better deal than what some parks do on their line skipping programs. For example, SFMM only gives you one ride on X2 and Twisted Colossus with their highest level Flash Pass, if memory serves. Now that's a ripoff.

6 Flags' fast pass system is much better than Cedar Fair's. I barely even notice it at Great America and Great Adventure. On most rides, they have the Flash Pass users come up the exit and on many rides, they make them sit in certain seats in the middle. While I'm not a fan of the whole idea of paying to cut in line, at least 6 Flags doesn't constantly rub your nose in the fact that you don't have one the fast passes.

Looks like Blackjack is running with guests today. Someone said they're running three trains, but I think it's still two because I saw a pic of the countdown timer at 85 and also, from watching the webcam, the interval is about 2:23 which is what it's been pretty consistently with two trains.

Hopefully getting closer to three though.

MDOmnis said:
Looks like Blackjack is running with guests today. Someone said they're running three trains, but I think it's still two because I saw a pic of the countdown timer at 85 and also, from watching the webcam, the interval is about 2:23 which is what it's been pretty consistently with two trains.

Hopefully getting closer to three though.

I have a friend at the park. It is running blackjack and chess with digger on transfer.

I don't know if it's really any closer to 3 trains. I'm far from being a ride expert, but wouldn't CP need to do more testing with so many cycles before running with 3 trains? That would most likely mean they would have to shut the ride down again for a day like they did before Coastermania right? I just show up at the park and ride/enjoy the various aspects of the park. Someone far better versed in ride operations can probably share more. Nobody even knows if further programming adjustments are needed before running 3 trains right? I'm all for getting 3 trains as quickly as possible, but I don't see them being any closer than they were before. With summer season here, I would assume it will be harder to shut the ride down for a day to make adjustments/conduct testing.

We have friends in from out of town so hopefully we can get them on SV early next week before they head back to California.

I’d say the fact that all three trains have now ran with guests during normal daily operation is a pretty good indication that they’re closer to running all three now than they were before. Testing can happen at night, theoretically.

Agreed CPVet on all 3 running with guests. I'm just naïve around what programming adjustments (if any) are still needed. I agree with the testing at night (like they did before Coastermania), but they also shut the ride down the day before to make whatever adjustments they needed that Thursday (I wasn't there that day, just based on what I read here). Oh well, no sense for me to overthink it. If and when they run 3 trains, good for all of us. If not, at least it's running and we've been able to take a few rides which have been awesome.

Getting 3 trains going by the end of June would be great with the incoming holiday and vacation crowds in July.

Yes it would. Taking friends on Monday (typical Monday summer crowd day so shouldn't be too bad). Our kids are pretty busy throughout the summer (camps, sports, all the fun stuff) so we don't have too many opportunities to go as a family together - a lot of 1/2 days, splitting up with whoever can go, etc.

We are going as a family the 4th - 6th of July which will be nice to get us all together at the park. 3 trains would be really nice for those days :)

I think the fact that all three can be run with guests now is a positive step, but they're probably not quite there yet.

The one thing I've not seen happen that would be necessary for efficient three train operation would be to stop a train completely on the midcourse and then release it and have it complete the course full, half full, empty, etc. I know it sounds like an awful thing to stop out there (the only time it should happen is if there's an ill timed power outage or other mechanical failure causing the train in front of one to not be advanced), but the reality of it is in order to have the designed interval (72 seconds) with three trains, it needs to be possible for a train to stop completely at the midcourse.

If a train can't stop at the midcourse (and then also complete the circuit when released), the previous train would have to completely clear the first set of brakes at the end of the ride before the next one can drop off the lift. That would probably be a 90-100 second interval with three trains which is slower than I'm sure they want. It would operate similar to Millennium Force, but with the trains being only 2/3rds the size, the max capacity would be about 800-900 pph, not the 1200 it's supposed to be.

Makes sense to my small brain MD. Thanks for the insights. Here's to hoping they figure all that out soon--

What indication do you have that the midcourse cannot completely stop a train? And with that, what evidence is there that the cannot stack all 3 (undesirably) between the station, standby, and final brakes?

I highly doubt they will NEED to close the ride for three train testing. I suspect it can be completed at night. I suspect that the closure for two train testing only happened so Cedar Point could accelerate the testing with Coastermania being a couple of days after RMC completed the fix and getting fast lane back on Steel Vengeance. Those two reasons outweighed the disappointed people the day it was closed. I don’t see a similar advantage to accelerating three train testing.

Isn't there enough room for 2 trains to be stopped safely outside of the station? If there is, wouldn't the train on the lift just stop if it climbed to a certain point and the train ahead of it had not advanced to the stop before entering the station? The brakes outside of the last tunnel on Magnum don't seem to have a problem stopping it completely...at least not anymore..lol.

To help prevent constant stacking, wouldn't they just slow the lift down?

CP Maverick - I have no indication that they CAN'T stop a train at the midcourse. I just haven't seen it done yet. Of course there isn't a need to with only two trains - especially since they're waiting until one returns before sending the next one.

Even if they can stack all three right at the station (and I am sure they can), they still need the midcourse to be able to stop one because of the length of the ride. The alternative is that a train can't leave the lift until the previous one is all the way clear of the first set of brakes at the end of the ride. That would be close to 100 second interval with three trains in my guestimation.

Zoug, the reason the midcourse is needed is because of the length of the ride. Magnum is one minute from lift to brakes. SV is about 90 seconds.

If takes about 165 seconds from the time a train dispatches to the time a train clears the first set of brakes at the back of the station. It looks like it takes about 65 seconds from dispatch until the front of the train is reaching the top of the lift. 165-65 (100 seconds) is your best possible interval with no midcourse. They'll be standing there with their thumbs up for 20-25 seconds waiting to send a train. Millennium Force is the only ride at CP with three trains that has an interval designed to be anywhere close to that long, but its trains are 50% bigger than Steel Vengeance's trains.