smoking and littering problem

Jennacide said:
WARNING: This is a flat-out, honest, unabashed (yet informed) rant!

Wow, you even started off your "rant" wrong.

You don't have a "right" to smoke. It is a choice. The same that Cedar Point doesn't have a right to let you enter, it is their choice. If you refuse to adhere to their policies, they have the right to refuse you entrance to their property.

But she does have a right to be completely ignorant. Clearly. :)

This was made even funnier when I noticed the quit smoking ad on this page.

New rules at Cedar Point memo. No exciting rides over 15 MPH because they affect your heart rate too much (bad for your heart). No more fried foods, red meat, or items with more sugar than the government says is required in a day, because it's bad for you. No more beer or alcohol because bad things always happen involving death when you have one. No more fog juice used in haunts because it does wonders for people with asthma. No guest my hold, hug, kiss, or display any other affection with another guest due to it may offend others.

I understand smoking laws in SOME ways. I don't and have never smoked. I enjoy coming home from a night out now not smelling like a cig butt. But when we are talking in the largest midways I've ever seen at an amusement park, in the fresh air, let it go. Most smokers are considerate enough to stay away from you. and will only blow smoke your way if you're being the an snob (meaning acting like you own the place). And I will say, some you think you are the Bill Gates of the Cedar Fair world.

People are living longer than they ever have now. Thus the reason social security is screwed and health care is a joke. And people living into their 80-90's were surrounded with smoke. It was everywhere. But they survived. And some even were smokers! When it's my day to go, it will be my day. Yes, cigarette smoke is bad for your health, but so is everything I mentioned in my first paragraph to one person or another. And I think we should be fair to everyone and not just think of yourselves.

In the end of the day, do you sit in your car at home and say this..." I'm not going to Cedar Point because someone was smoking?" My guess is you don't. The only time I feel you are forced to deal with smoking is in line for a ride. Which I have seen the rules enforced. When? you ask?. When someone wants to cry about it enough. Most understand it's a bad habit that some just cant handle. And ignore it. But since your sitting in a long line, you have to find something to complain about. Face it, the line can be long and boring. So people watching can only go so far. So it's an easy fix.

I realize I'm all over the place in this reply. But I dont like when people like to force their beliefs on to others. So I will smoke, drink, speed, eat, and hug whomever I want. And no I'm not gay. But I've literally taken a complaint at CP as a area sup from someone who didn't like the site of 2 guys holding hands. People need to worry about themselves and realize they arent perfect either.

I really don't believe any what he said. I really do not get how Six Flags New England, Kings Island,and Busch Gardens can enforce there rules. (especially Six Flags New England) http://www.negative-g.com/SFNE/2009/SFNE-2009-1.htm (2nd Pic)

JuggaLotus said:

Jennacide said:
WARNING: This is a flat-out, honest, unabashed (yet informed) rant!

Wow, you even started off your "rant" wrong.

You don't have a "right" to smoke. It is a choice. The same that Cedar Point doesn't have a right to let you enter, it is their choice. If you refuse to adhere to their policies, they have the right to refuse you entrance to their property.

Yes, as a matter of fact I do. Apparently you have either not yet made it to 5th grade Juggalo, or you were placed in one of the special ed. classes for the ritalin fueled just like all the other kids who are obsessed with the "Insane" Clown Posse. It's right there in the Declaration of Independance, you should read it sometime. (Here's a little snippit which happens to be pertinant to our disagreement) "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." One of my little joys in life (a.k.a. happiness) is SMOKING! What do you know?!? It's not only legal, but was protected in one of the founding fathers documents! Not only that, the artwork done when they made this document, shows them SMOKING! So apparently they found it to be one of the little pleasures life had to offer them as well!

Yes, if I refuse to adhere to their actual policies, I would be refused entry (such as fighting, bringing weapons & booze into the park, or destroying/stealing property). However, I was smoking in an area near MF(way over past the left of the silver MF sign, where if you go any further you'd be behind the bushes & vending machines, where there needs to be a smoking area?) away from the general flow of traffic, but clearly not in a designated smoking area, and spoke with head of park operations, who obviously saw me doing it, since I smoked half a cigarette right in his line of sight while waiting for the train gate to raise, then had a 15 minute conversation with him about how the weekend went (I was there for three days straight (Oct 30,31,& Nov 1), as well as 30+ more days this season, plus another 15 days total at 3 other Cedar Fair parks over the summer) as we walked through the park together. He never commented once on my smoking, but encouraged me to come next year and give him my feedback again. I'd hardly say that was a refusal for re-entry, or even call it a smoking policy. As a matter of fact, it sounds suspiciously like something someone posted before on this thread about an outdoor Ohio smoking protection law.. hmm, who was that? Maybe someone should LOOK IT UP!

As for dj damon, IGNORANT is not the word you were searching for. Ignorance means lack of education, in this matter, it refers to lack of education on the topic at hand. I assure you, I am quite well researched, and highly informed. I will repeat, ask your local Ohio lawyer, you can even search for one to chat with one online if you have no real friends. If you have friends or family in a different state, ask around, EVERYONE knows a lawyer, it's inevitable in this world that sooner or later we all need one, and they're like cops, they have a state to state networking community. Whichever one you know, they will be more than curious to find the answer to the question about legalities of outdoor smoking restrictions (if only so they can use it to sue a major park someday).

Last, but certainly not least.. THANK YOU 901liveson! Thank you for being an adult! Thank you for having common sense! Thank you for actually being a human being who thinks for himself, with varying opinions!(oh yeah, and thank you for not trying to get me p/o'd! I was in a bad enough mood yesterday when I found out I have to have a fun filled intestinal surgery, so I came on here to get cheered up. Apparently that was a bad mistake) If I could, I would buy you a drink in a bar (even though they now have that minty fresh aroma of urinal cake[&and what the cake soaks up or doesn't, which is my guess..] if you sit near the men's room.. some places need smoking sections, in my opinion.. especially the dive bars the Rubber City has to offer).

As far as enforcing any rules, I'd personally love to see the spitting stopped. Teenage boys all summer long spit on everything, and it irks me, but I don't whine about it. Usually I do a bit with my best friend when we're stuck in line behind a spitter (only once did I really get mad. A teen boy,around 16, was spitting in my direction,AT & ON his DATE! I was so close to explaining women's rights to him, then having him thrown out. This was in line for Firehawk in KI, so I know them pretty well.. every time I drive past,I go to ride the old Geauga Lake coaster.. & I go to N.KY about 2x a month minimum in the summer), we'll name off all sorts of "diseases" that have symptoms that include excessive spitting like impotence, testicular shrinkage, oral std's,or male breast growth, or completely made up stuff that sounds horrific, just loud enough for their dates or buddies to hear. That usually stops them pretty quickly (teenagers are generally stupid). Apparently Cedar Point considers spitting desecration of property or something and grounds for ejection. With the possibility of death from a virus, I consider that one far more of a threat to my immediate well being than 7 minutes in the vicinity of a cancer stick outdoors (where, ironically, smoke has this magical ability of rising!).

By the way, if I were a CP operator, and some homophobe actually had the nerve to complain at the park about something like gay affection, considering there are at least 5 noticably gay men running rides on any given day, I'd totally announce his complaint into a PA to embarrass him (using the excuse you had to, to get a manager), and then call one of the openly gay friends working and have him come over to torture the guy until he ran screaming (& if I was a guy I'd pretend I had a huge crush on the "manager" while he was handling the situation just to twist the knife a little more). ;-D Screw bigots, they need to be the ones locked in the closet, not gay men! My best friend since kindergarden is a gay man, & I think he's the bravest, most manly man I know!

Jennacide said:

It's right there in the Declaration of Independance... It's not only legal, but was protected in one of the founding fathers documents! Not only that, the artwork done when they made this document, shows them SMOKING! So apparently they found it to be one of the little pleasures life had to offer them as well!

Some of those guys were also slave owners, genius.

As for dj damon, IGNORANT is not the word you were searching for. Ignorance means lack of education...

No, that was precisely the word I was looking for. And I actually found it.

...in this matter, it refers to lack of education on the topic at hand. I assure you, I am quite well researched, and highly informed. I will repeat, ask your local Ohio lawyer, you can even search for one to chat with one online if you have no real friends.

Perhaps, rather than going off on your nonsensical, moronic rants, you could simply point us all to the Ohio law(s) that dictate that private businesses must allow smokers to partake where ever they choose.

I was in a bad enough mood yesterday when I found out I have to have a fun filled intestinal surgery, so I came on here to get cheered up. Apparently that was a bad mistake...

Ya think? Was that a recommendation from your doctor?

As far as enforcing any rules, I'd personally love to see the spitting stopped. Teenage boys all summer long spit on everything, and it irks me, but I don't whine about it.

You're whining about it right now. And clearly, the founding fathers felt that teenage boys are entitled to spit. Its right there in the Declaration of Independence. Why do you hate America?

Well, its obvious by resorting to personal attacks, that you actually have no argument.

And what the heck was the point about gays? Or are you just trolling for a fight?

Point is, CP is a PRIVATE business. As such, they can decide what activities to allow inside their gates. One that they've decided to restrict, is smoking. Be glad that they aren't as effective as Six Flags at enforcing it, otherwise you'd be hearing from a lawyer that there is nothing they can do when you get kicked out.

and spoke with head of park operations

and can you name the head of park operations? or at least give a physical description?

Im glad that smoking is provides you happiness that is all well and good but I don't want to be killed because of something YOU do.

I may die of problems from all the fast food I eat, but that is my choice. If you want take the health risks associated with smoking so be it but please leave my health out of it and smoke where you are told to.

Oh and private company means private company, if Disney wanted to make Mickey into a nazi to drive away jewish people they could, it would be the most ignorant business decision ever made, but they could do it.

I just want to say that I hate cigarettes and never have smoked one.

But.. I love cigars and I smoke 3-4 a week. I dont know what point I am trying to make, I just like stating that fact that I love cigars!! When I go to CP I love sitting by the lake and smoking a good stogie before I go into the park.

Jennacide said:

little snippit which happens to be pertinant to our disagreement) "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." One of my little joys in life (a.k.a. happiness) is SMOKING! What do you know?!? It's not only legal, but was protected in one of the founding fathers documents!

I'm not sure Constitutional scholars would agree that something merely has to pass the "happiness test" to be protected.

The First Amendment does not have the same power on private property as it does in public. Some states use their state constitution to broaden rights for residents, such as allowing free speech on private property in certain situations. California is the obvious example.

Courts have consistently rejected the argument that smoking is protected by the right to privacy, right to liberty, or under the Equal Protection Clause. There simply is no Constitutional right to smoke.

Because there is no federal protection for smoking, pro-tobacco groups work at the state and local levels to fight anti-smoking legislation. For example, some states have laws that protect workers from employers who want to punish them for smoking outside of work hours.

Not to mention the Declaration of Independence is merely our airing of grievances against Great Britain, and has absolutely no bearing in court whatsoever.

And I don't recall an amendement in the constitution stating that the "right of the people to smoke and bear tobacco shall not be infringed".

Everyone, please join me in welcoming Orly Taitz to the forum.

Let me clear something up before this continues. The park has a smoking policy, and it is that you are to smoke in the designated smoking areas. It is a real park policy, and it is enforceable by park employees. I have done so (enforced the policy) several times, as have many of my friends. Enforcement of the policy is encouraged, and several of us tried (try) to enforce it. Do you really think the park (and every park in the chain) would create a policy and several signs, train employees about the policy and how to politely enforce the policy if said policy were not enforceable?

To try and claim that it is not enforceable and cannot possibly be a park policy is nonsense. Now with that in mind, carry on.

Break Trims said:
Everyone, please join me in welcoming Orly Taitz to the forum.

I actually LOL'd. Good stuff. :)

BlueStreak64 said:
create a policy and several signs

There's my problem with it. There are several signs, and most of them are small and only at the smoking areas. The park needs to hit people over the head with it, and there are already a couple thousand places to put no smoking signs - the trash cans.

Oh, and don't worry, it is clear. At least to those of us who have taken a basic civics course and understand personal and property rights.

I think its pretty funny to see someone question someone else's education level and then go on to quote the Declaration of Independence as governing authority for existing rights. As already noted, Constitution (and the amendments thereto) are supreme law of the land so to speak at this point.

Jennacide, you should really think about shortening your posts. Your comment on the gay thing has nothing to do with this. I and probably mostly everyone on the thread would rather read real facts rather than long posts filled of BS. Pretty much you are saying is that Six Flags New England and Kings Island can tell be to go in a smoking area but Cedar Point can not.

dammie16 said:
Im glad that smoking is provides you happiness that is all well and good but I don't want to be killed because of something YOU do.

I may die of problems from all the fast food I eat, but that is my choice. If you want take the health risks associated with smoking so be it but please leave my health out of it and smoke where you are told to.

I like to follow the rules at the park and smoke in the designated area. Because its the right thing to do.

However in an open air environment, especially one as windy as Cedar Point even on 'calm' days, I'm going to say that unless you are standing right next to a person and inhale more than 3 or 4 lung fulls of smoke, you're fine. Please stop being over dramatic. You're just as bad as defiant smokers.