Six Flags Worlds of Adventure: Now what?
In case you haven't been playing along at home:
http://www.coasterbuzz.com/news/news.asp?NewsID=1257
I've been telling you for awhile now that the Geauga Lake turned Six Flags Ohio thing was mostly a non-issue. Ditto when they announced X-Flight. Now, the rules have changed. It's not because of new rides, either.
The fundamental change here is that now the park offers something for everyone in the park. It's not strictly a teen-oriented attraction. All that stuff under one ticket can satisfy a family.
If we could take off our cheerleading uniforms for a moment (always wanted to say that), what effect will this have on Cedar Point?
My theory is that this very hastily executed merge will make operational deficiencies even worse, at least in the short term. However, if Six Flags can raise the bar on service, they've got a winner.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
http://www.coasterbuzz.com/news/news.asp?NewsID=1257
I've been telling you for awhile now that the Geauga Lake turned Six Flags Ohio thing was mostly a non-issue. Ditto when they announced X-Flight. Now, the rules have changed. It's not because of new rides, either.
The fundamental change here is that now the park offers something for everyone in the park. It's not strictly a teen-oriented attraction. All that stuff under one ticket can satisfy a family.
If we could take off our cheerleading uniforms for a moment (always wanted to say that), what effect will this have on Cedar Point?
My theory is that this very hastily executed merge will make operational deficiencies even worse, at least in the short term. However, if Six Flags can raise the bar on service, they've got a winner.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
"However, if Six Flags can raise the bar on service, they've got a winner."
I think they could do that by building some dorms and hiring college students. Their biggest problem is service and I think that could be solved by having a bigger employee pool to choose from. Right now they have to pull from people who are close enough to drive. If Cedar Point didn't have dorms, their service level would probably be the same.
Just an opinion :)
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Cedar Point Virtual Midway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
I think they could do that by building some dorms and hiring college students. Their biggest problem is service and I think that could be solved by having a bigger employee pool to choose from. Right now they have to pull from people who are close enough to drive. If Cedar Point didn't have dorms, their service level would probably be the same.
Just an opinion :)
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Cedar Point Virtual Midway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
I agree with you completely, Jeff. This all has happened in such a small amount of time that you can be sure there are a few aspects which they have overlooked, or took too lightly. The idea of a park for the whole family is a good one, as it has always been. I am sure most parks strive to become more family-oriented, like CP, and this is a great way to do it. Six Flags obviously wants a competition here, and if it's a competion they want, then, hopefully, a competion they will get.
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Times I have "Gone Full Force" on MF: 9
Chris G.
-Representin' Motown
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Times I have "Gone Full Force" on MF: 9
Chris G.
-Representin' Motown
And they are going to have this new park up and running in 93 days????? There is going to be a scramble there, and anything put together will done so with great haste.
The plan looks great on paper. Now if only they can execute it.
I feel this still won't effect Cedar Point greatly. Look at the state of Florida. All of there theme parks Coexist and appear to be thriving. Some parks are even in the same city are doing great. Ohio could become the Florida of the North, for summer anyway. The best part for my town is, it's right in the center of this madness. So even if they can get this park up to CP's stature (which is the biggest question) it could help CP by providing more competition and more attraction to the area.
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Joe E
The plan looks great on paper. Now if only they can execute it.
I feel this still won't effect Cedar Point greatly. Look at the state of Florida. All of there theme parks Coexist and appear to be thriving. Some parks are even in the same city are doing great. Ohio could become the Florida of the North, for summer anyway. The best part for my town is, it's right in the center of this madness. So even if they can get this park up to CP's stature (which is the biggest question) it could help CP by providing more competition and more attraction to the area.
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Joe E
I agree with you Jeff, if SFWoA is done right they could be one of the best parks out there. Yet, with 10 coasters, water park, and wild-life area, most people haven't even heard of a place called SFO. A lot of people at my school don't even know it exists. Then with this switching names thing, it will probably get even worse.
I think CP won't have any attendance problems for the next few years, or at least until SFWoA gets a major ride (MF major). Even if they do lose attendance I'll still go because I know what a great park it has and always will be. People got to realize that times change, and if anything will bring something better out of CP's expansion. Whether it be more flat rides or a coaster I don't care as long as CP is there for me to enjoy.
I think CP won't have any attendance problems for the next few years, or at least until SFWoA gets a major ride (MF major). Even if they do lose attendance I'll still go because I know what a great park it has and always will be. People got to realize that times change, and if anything will bring something better out of CP's expansion. Whether it be more flat rides or a coaster I don't care as long as CP is there for me to enjoy.
I keep looking at this in a financial perspective. I can't even fathom the amount of overhead and the amount of debt that Six Flag's has incurred in recent years. Particularly in the current state of the slowing economy. I mean, just within the last week, it was announced that GE is cutting 75,000 jobs, Daimler Chrysler is cutting 26,000, Amazon.com is laying off thousands, etc...
Things are looking bleak, and if I were a CEO, I certainly would not be on a frivolous spending spree as PKS has been.
I agree with you on the operational deficiencies, they have a lot of work to win back the portion of the public who walked away in recent years with a bad taste over their operations. Somehow, I don't think that this merger frenzy is going to do just that.
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Neil
Pittsburgh, PA
Things are looking bleak, and if I were a CEO, I certainly would not be on a frivolous spending spree as PKS has been.
I agree with you on the operational deficiencies, they have a lot of work to win back the portion of the public who walked away in recent years with a bad taste over their operations. Somehow, I don't think that this merger frenzy is going to do just that.
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Neil
Pittsburgh, PA
Personally, I think this could really hit CP where it hurts, family attendance. We have to face it that SFWoA now offers something that CP decided to let go of, animal shows. Although enthusiasts won't give a second thought about these shows, families, especially those with smaller kids, will flock to the former SWO part of the park. There's still the marketing point of literally two-parks-for-one. The Cleveland locals that I've talked to know more of SWO more than SFO/GL. Now they've got the other side of the lake for free. Why go to CP when you can get coaster thrills at SWO?
Doesn't that SFMM controversy seem silly now?
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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
Doesn't that SFMM controversy seem silly now?
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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
Shivering T. I agree. Things could get dangerous for CP. All that land they have.... oh think of the rides. CP better start thinking fast. They got caught w/ their fingers in their nose and that is going to cost them a lot for awhile!
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"Your obssesed w/ that place aren't you?"
Shivering Tim, I agree too, this hit a LOT closer to home and people are actually worried for CP. I myself am not too worried since I think people will keep going there no matter what since they always have. As long as CP keeps introducing new rides and improvements I think we'll be in pretty good shape. I'm not even thinking about going to SFO this summer even if I could and I think a lot of people around here feel the same way.
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Trim brakes-a necessity???
(used to be MFistheBEST) *** This post was edited by Chris on 2/1/2001. ***
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Trim brakes-a necessity???
(used to be MFistheBEST) *** This post was edited by Chris on 2/1/2001. ***
Now that SFO has bought Sea World (which won't be Sea World much past this season) Cedar point is in trouble. That's no line either. An unnamed person that I know admitted it. It's going to be a very interesting year for both parks. I don't think that either one will particularly suffer, but each will have their share of good and bad days. Unfortunately SFO does not have the dormitories that CP does, or else their seasonals would be along the same quality as CP's (for the most part). There are many people from the north/eastern part of the state that go to work at Cedar Point, mainly because at SFO they have no place to stay. I would love to see something done about that.
Also, CP has usually been the first park out of the big three in Ohio(CP, PKI, SFO) to introduce the newest, biggest, best ride, etc. haven't they?? Well then where were they this year in competition for X-flight?? I know that they just built Millennium Force, but I just don't understand putting in these cabins that will be gone in ten years when they need room for a new coaster.
Also, CP has usually been the first park out of the big three in Ohio(CP, PKI, SFO) to introduce the newest, biggest, best ride, etc. haven't they?? Well then where were they this year in competition for X-flight?? I know that they just built Millennium Force, but I just don't understand putting in these cabins that will be gone in ten years when they need room for a new coaster.
If Six Flags can't even hire staff trained enough to not set fires on their rides, how are they going to handle live animals?
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Visit my RCT CP site.
http://cedarpoint.8k.com
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Visit my RCT CP site.
http://cedarpoint.8k.com
"I know that they just built Millennium Force, but I just don't understand putting in these cabins that will be gone in ten years when they need room for a new coaster."
Those are the kinds of thoughts we had when they built Magnum. Wouldn't you know it, we get Mean Streak, Sandscastle, Snake River, Raptor, Mantis, Power Tower, Breakers Tower, Camp Snoopy, MF...
Cedar Point does not have a space problem.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
Those are the kinds of thoughts we had when they built Magnum. Wouldn't you know it, we get Mean Streak, Sandscastle, Snake River, Raptor, Mantis, Power Tower, Breakers Tower, Camp Snoopy, MF...
Cedar Point does not have a space problem.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
Yeah Jeff - Cedar Point does not have a space problem (TM).
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Times I have "Gone Full Force" on MF: 9
Chris G.
-Representin' Motown
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Times I have "Gone Full Force" on MF: 9
Chris G.
-Representin' Motown
The only way Cedar Point will be effected by this at all is if this park shows it can do something. Last year Cedar Point had a record year attendance wise even with a coaster boom over by Geauga Lake. Sea World Ohio did exist last year, and what Six Flags Call's a Marine world sounds more like the West Side Market fish stand.
I may sound crazy one this one, but here is a theory of mine. People who did like to visit SWO for the great marine life are now going to be turned off by this move. Is anyone going to pay $38 to just see the marine section. Granted the insanely cheep unprofitable Season Passes mat still attract a few. Right now the way I see it is SFO with fish.
People who decide to go to SFWOA instead of CP becuase of the other side of the park will hurt, but not everyone rides coaster's and people who want just marine life will not go becasue the other side of the park.
My grand Prediction is SFWOA attendance will be less than that of SFO and SWO attendance combined last year.
SF buying both SWO and incorporating it so soon sounds to me like a poor move. Disney World, and CP for that matter did not grow over night. They had a thing called planning, and grew on people hearing how good these places were. I think the majority of there attendance will still be local.
This spending spree and a slowing economy put many doubts in my mind. This place is going to be patched together with no framework and for the first year, I don't see how this park is going to fare well with the public. Bad experiences this year will keep them away. They will spend there money at other place's and if the economy turns sour and whoever keeps giving them money say no more, SFWOA will eventually go the way of other regional park such as Idora, Shady Lake and Euclid Beach Park's.
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Joe
I may sound crazy one this one, but here is a theory of mine. People who did like to visit SWO for the great marine life are now going to be turned off by this move. Is anyone going to pay $38 to just see the marine section. Granted the insanely cheep unprofitable Season Passes mat still attract a few. Right now the way I see it is SFO with fish.
People who decide to go to SFWOA instead of CP becuase of the other side of the park will hurt, but not everyone rides coaster's and people who want just marine life will not go becasue the other side of the park.
My grand Prediction is SFWOA attendance will be less than that of SFO and SWO attendance combined last year.
SF buying both SWO and incorporating it so soon sounds to me like a poor move. Disney World, and CP for that matter did not grow over night. They had a thing called planning, and grew on people hearing how good these places were. I think the majority of there attendance will still be local.
This spending spree and a slowing economy put many doubts in my mind. This place is going to be patched together with no framework and for the first year, I don't see how this park is going to fare well with the public. Bad experiences this year will keep them away. They will spend there money at other place's and if the economy turns sour and whoever keeps giving them money say no more, SFWOA will eventually go the way of other regional park such as Idora, Shady Lake and Euclid Beach Park's.
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Joe
TPFKAGLFKASFO has bought TPFKASWO, and is now calling itself SFWoA. Are you sure Jeff that Oceana is going to be torn down?? Or is CP going to change it from the "boardwalk project" to the "how the hell do we compete with this merger project." All sea-life and animal attractions would be a very good investment for CP in this area of the park right now.
One other thing... this is like integrating East Germany with West Germany. At the time, West Germany had a great economy, where East Germany was poor. When the wall came down, the economies merged and in the end United Germany had a fair economy. Same thing with SFO and Sea World. SFO has bad management, where Sea World Has excellent management. Together United, they will have a fair management and a fair guest approval.
As I said when the sale was announced, the animals don't just disappear in the off season. They still need to be fed and cared for. I mean, isn't this why Busch sold the park in the first place? That's what I don't get. Busch has wanted out for years, now Six Flags takes the burden?
Time will tell...
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
Time will tell...
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
Seriously, SF has other large parks.
How many are managed well?
SFMM? No. SFNE? No.
Seriously, SFGAm and SFGAdv aren't bad, and SFoT and SFoG are decent. Of course, SFoG is willing to sue like mad to get a decent park.
Besides, SF already killed one whale (SFMW), maybe they are trying for two.
A caveat - SF is still a teen chain, and is known for such. Other SF parks have kids areas. I know families with young children like CP's kids stuff. I've not yet heard raves about SF kids areas.
How many are managed well?
SFMM? No. SFNE? No.
Seriously, SFGAm and SFGAdv aren't bad, and SFoT and SFoG are decent. Of course, SFoG is willing to sue like mad to get a decent park.
Besides, SF already killed one whale (SFMW), maybe they are trying for two.
A caveat - SF is still a teen chain, and is known for such. Other SF parks have kids areas. I know families with young children like CP's kids stuff. I've not yet heard raves about SF kids areas.
I think the park will be a mess for a few years. It may be one park now and sound good on paper, but it won't have the cohesiveness of one park. Over the years they will fix the problem, but the bucks involved....whew!
However, let me give you a simple example of how this can effect CP. I work with a woman who is married and has two young kids. They don't make a lot of money and it is very tight. They have to be selective. They love all of Ohio's theme parks, but have to choose on one for a season pass. Which park do you think they will choose. Six Flags is offering a lot more NOW for the family than CP...a lot more. And Six Flags future plans will cater to the family even more (i.e. tropical rainforest with zoo animals). CP's family attractions are nice, but there are not many...plus no animals.
CP will be fine! Just keep adding the thrill rides to enhance its image as a Thrill park. But they do need to catch up a little. There are so many new coasters out there that CP does not have and SFO and other parks are getting. I hope 2002 is big year.
*** This post was edited by net on 2/2/2001. ***
However, let me give you a simple example of how this can effect CP. I work with a woman who is married and has two young kids. They don't make a lot of money and it is very tight. They have to be selective. They love all of Ohio's theme parks, but have to choose on one for a season pass. Which park do you think they will choose. Six Flags is offering a lot more NOW for the family than CP...a lot more. And Six Flags future plans will cater to the family even more (i.e. tropical rainforest with zoo animals). CP's family attractions are nice, but there are not many...plus no animals.
CP will be fine! Just keep adding the thrill rides to enhance its image as a Thrill park. But they do need to catch up a little. There are so many new coasters out there that CP does not have and SFO and other parks are getting. I hope 2002 is big year.
*** This post was edited by net on 2/2/2001. ***
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