Screamscape

People search that database all the time. El Toro, Patriot, Griffon, Maverick, and a bunch of others were all discovered way before being officially announced to the public.

Of course CP hyped something. They had information about a new ride on their website. They had information along the train ride about the new ride and on the construction fence. What do you call that?

And Cedar Fair's attorneys certainly understand that trademark filings become public. And they certainly understand that with the level of interest of some folks in CP, someone was likely to find out about the new filing and connect it to the new ride. And they easily could have kept that information from being linked to CP. But they chose not to. And I do not believe that was a slip up. And do you think that Cedar Point disliked the speculation and interest in the new ride?

I did read what was posted here. And I responded to the point raised that screamscape was just like leaking the ending to a movie. I think the analogy is off base.

With respect to future information access, is the concern that because someone leaked information that they should not have leaked that CP will be less willing to give Jeff and Walt information that Jeff and Walt cannot share with us anyway? And if the concern is that CP will not give them information that CP wants them to share with us, why would the leak change that?

GoBucks89 said:
Of course CP hyped something. They had information about a new ride on their website. They had information along the train ride about the new ride and on the construction fence. What do you call that?

I call that acknowledging the construction. Duh, their building a new ride. Acknowledging that fact is not hyping anything.

And Cedar Fair's attorneys certainly understand that trademark filings become public. And they certainly understand that with the level of interest of some folks in CP, someone was likely to find out about the new filing and connect it to the new ride. And they easily could have kept that information from being linked to CP. But they chose not to. And I do not believe that was a slip up. And do you think that Cedar Point disliked the speculation and interest in the new ride?

There was nothing to hide. They reserved a name. Why go through the trouble of creating a false company to reserve names under? And there was some rabid speculation....amongst about 100 people tops. That's not even a blip on CP's radar.

I did read what was posted here. And I responded to the point raised that screamscape was just like leaking the ending to a movie. I think the analogy is off base.

With respect to future information access, is the concern that because someone leaked information that they should not have leaked that CP will be less willing to give Jeff and Walt information that Jeff and Walt cannot share with us anyway? And if the concern is that CP will not give them information that CP wants them to share with us, why would the leak change that?

Its called consequences. The consequences of web-sites leaking information may result in the park revoking privileges that are extended to fan sites. One site really can screw it up for everyone.

OK, my question is for Walt & Jeff. What exactly is the point for a press release if you cannot say anything about it? If Jeff & Walt really knew what was going on, its not like they teased us about it or lead us on about it. We did not find out about Maverick from this website, only it was posted after it was officially announced. So what good does it do to Cedar Fair to send this press release out?

Jugga -- You said that CP had no control over the Maverick name being "leaked." And I simply said that was not true. There were relatively easy steps Cedar Fair could have taken so that no connection to Cedar Point would ever be made. Companies do that every day in circumstances in which confidentiality truly matter. CP chose not to go that route but it was available with very little extra effort/cost.

To say that CP didn't hype the new ride is just silly. If all they wanted to do was tell us they were building a new ride, they would have put up signs that said "Pardon our mess. We are building a new ride." They would not have put those little signs saying "We are going in a new direction" (or whatever it was they said) and they would not have put peep holes in the construction fence. Its called advertising and marketing. Its all done to bring more people into the park. And there is nothing wrong with that. Its a business. Bringing more people into the park is the name of the game. If you asked them (and they were being honest), they would certainly say they are hyping the new ride. Why would you say otherwise?

What privileges are extended to fan sites that are likely to be taken away? Jeff and Walt get access to behind the scenes info at CP. Some of that information CP wants to get to the public and some of it CP doesn't. If CP wants the info to get to the public, why would they stop giving it to Jeff and Walt? And if they do not want the information to get to the public, Jeff and Walt are not telling us anyway. So whats the difference? If anything, Jeff and Walt may lose out.

For me the bottom line is that someone leaked infomation- and should be tied to the tracks at the end of Maverick's 2nd launch- and then fired.

There's a reason I put "leaked" in quotes. Its not a leak. Its public domain. So that's apparently a bit of mis-understanding. I used leak because thats what people were referring to it as.

They put up different signs because they fit in better with that part of the park. And its not unusual when a place is building for the future, and will be open to the public during the construction, to give visual access to the construction site to the visiting public. All they did was acknowledge that construction was going on.

Walt has previously gotten some seriously kick-ass off season access to the park. Which he uses to provide US with photo updates. He's also gotten off-season construction site tours. Which he uses to provide US with photo updates.

Unless I'm mistaken, he's asked the park and coordinated with them to get this access. They aren't out asking if anyone wants a tour he initiated it. They could turn around next time and say "Sorry". And that would be no more access for US. Which would be not cool.

If anyone watched the quicktime video, can you tell me what the purpose of that track on the right just before the lift hill? It doesn't seem to be serving any purpose.

That is probably the storage track.

ProStar said:
If Jeff & Walt really knew what was going on, its not like they teased us about it or lead us on about it.

First of all, Walt was not in the loop because he was not doing contract work related to Maverick for the park. I was, and I was bound by a non-disclosure agreement. Jeff the contractor knew details, but Jeff the guy who co-runs PointBuzz didn't know anything until the stuff was released online.

Maybe its just semantics but I think Cedar Point is clearly doing more than telling people they have a new ride. They want to create interest and suspense in the new ride. And again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Its all part of the entertainment business.

It seems to me that the risk that anything screamscape does will cause CP to stop the flow of information that CP wants to become public is very low. Off season information is great for CP because it makes them think about the park when it is not open. That can never be a bad thing. Only risk from what screamscape did is that CP may not provide confidential info to sites like this. But because sites like this won't share that information with us, I am not sure how that impacts us.

And as has been pointed out, how many people actually saw the information on screamscape (either directly or on this site or others like it)? Compared to the number of customers that CP has, we are truly talking about the fanatic fanatics. I suspect that for the vast majority of CP customers, today is the earliest they will see anything about the new ride (and many will know nothing about it until they get to the park next year).

In this day and age things like this happen. I am not really sure why CP was giving this info out before the date that the general public was to be informed anyway. But you have to figure the odds are stacked that someone will eventually squeal and let it slip. No offense to Jeff and Walt, but what is the reason the people that operate these sites (not the actual newspapers and TV stations) need to have this information prior to everyone else? Just so they and only they can know what is going on? I just don't see the reasoning.

^ Its just human nature, how many times have you been in a coversation or overheard one where one person says : oh I just saw the new TOOL video online, and the second person says : oh I saw that a long time ago.

Its oneupmanship, some people just need to prove that they are better or more resorcefull even if they dont benifit in anyway.

Sorry...not impressed.

Jeff indicated he was/is doing contract work for Maverick. Therefore, makes sense to me that he would have information about the ride before the public. I would think that CP gave non-public information about the ride to others too. CP website has an interview with someone from ACE. I suspect that CP discusses planned rides with certain non-CP employees to get feedback on certain aspects of a planned ride.

JuggaLotus said:
Have you been reading?

Its not that screamscape spoiled anything for Maverick but that parks are already a little wary of giving access to 3rd-party webpages. Jeff and Walt have worked hard to get the kind of access they do (off-season tours, Boo-Buzz, interviews) so that they can provide us with great events and coverage. It can take just one screamscape to ruin all of that. If parks think they can't trust outside websites, they could cut them off. And that would mean no more behind-the-scenes updates. No more off-season details. No more events for coaster-buzz.*** Edited 9/7/2006 8:18:04 PM UTC by JuggaLotus***

If CP trusted Walt & Jeff before SS they'll trust them after. There's no reason to believe that CP's view is going to change based on something that someone else did.

I believe it was Apple that was up in arms after a not-yet-released iPod was leaked and posted online but they're still talking to the web media.
*** Edited 9/8/2006 4:27:51 AM UTC by Chad Smith***

I'm not sure where to begin, but I have to say something, solely at least to get it off my chest.

First, have any of you actually had to sign a non-disclosure agreement? I am currently under one right now, and let me tell you, it's not a walk in the park. You find yourself second guessing how to answer basic questions, because the information you know is 'secret', and answering any way that may indicate the future is a definite no-no. Your answer or your actions can cause you to find yourself in legal and financial trouble, as you are responsible for everything that you do and say. There is some real pressure that you feel. I can understand and relate to the problem that Jeff has faced, and like a lot of things in life people, the grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence. Trust me, it's not for everyone.

At the same time, some of you are right, this isn't national security. It is, however, someone's job, their life, and their families income, so yes, it is important.

I would hope, however, that you Jeff are respected by the industry for YOU, and not the job that you do. That's a small but important difference. If you have developed these relationships based on your character, then in my honest opinion, you have nothing to fear, as these CEOs and other decsion makers will remember that. They also will remember what Screamscape did, and deal with them accordingly.

Jeff has the right to be mad and his 'teenager argument' is an excellent example. I believe the leak didn't cause any real damage to CF in this case, the damage was done to Screamscape.

This is a rediculous thread. Cedar Point entrusted information to many outlets. Screamscape lost any trust that Cedar Point had in that website. I really doubt that they would clump all the Cedar Point enthusiast websites together. One site did something inappropriate. I would think that the hard work Walt and Jeff have done won't be for nothing. (although I don't know them and have no clue as to what work they have done)

When someone died on Raven who was looked at? The ACE club. They were singled out, not every club. I think the media office at Cedar Point can differentiate between a horse's ass and a RESPONSIBLE PERSON/WEBSITE

I'd like to say this is an intelligent thread because it has alot of long, illustrious posts that have some very valid points, but I only describe this as highly repetitive. I believe this exact argument was carried out in another thread, and all the posts were pretty much the same.

It's a simple fact of life, you can never win an argument over the internet, even if you are 100% right. Some people just can't see the big picture.

ugh