Sandcastle Suites

djDaemon said:

Except that simply renovating would greatly limit what they could do with a new resort. And when you're calculating ROI in terms of decades, it absolutely does make sense to completely raze the land and start from scratch.

I’d agree there be no point in building a Sandcastle II. We’d have to see almost a full service hotel to really be anything different. Convention space, indoor pools, restaurants, etc. They could use a smaller footprint and you can add cabins around it even since sandcastle does take up a good amount of land for the number of rooms it had.

I find it tough to see a huge ROI on building a new hotel like that, given that it operates a little more than 1/3 of the year (unless they plan on a year round indoor water park or lodge, which seems unlikely given Castaway). Seems they might be more content building additions to Breakers were you get the added room revenue without having to invest in a full hotel with new facilities.

Speaking of, the new Breakers wing has 158 Rooms. Sandcastle had 190 some (sad to think of this in past tense already) . Surprisingly, they aren’t really loosing much in terms of total rooms for next year.

Joe E said:
Speaking of, the new Breakers wing has 158 Rooms. Sandcastle had 190 some (sad to think of this in past tense already) . Surprisingly, they aren’t really loosing much in terms of total rooms for next year.

This, more than anything, makes me think that there will not be a replacement hotel for Sandcastle.

But remember all 190 of those rooms were suites... I doubt the new 158 rooms in Breakers will all be suites....

CPboy77 said:
But remember all 190 of those rooms were suites... I doubt the new 158 rooms in Breakers will all be suites....

Based on how close together the balconies are to one and other...I don't think there are any suites.

TheRealMaverick said:

CPboy77 said:
But remember all 190 of those rooms were suites... I doubt the new 158 rooms in Breakers will all be suites....

Based on how close together the balconies are to one and other...I don't think there are any suites.

The historic Hotel Breakers, fresh off a $50 million upgrade in 2015, will add a six-story tower for lodging. It is to open in 2018. Many of the new rooms will be set up as family suites. An outdoor pool will be added

From the : http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2016/08/19/Soak-City-to-add-attrac...-grow.html

I would say it’s safe to assume that the new wing is above the rack rate for the standard Breakers room.
They are selling out Breakers almost all year, why would they add cheaper rooms?

Alright lol perhaps I am wrong...but it's interesting the exterior on the beach side appears to be standard rooms on the exterior with one window a ptac (hvac) unit door and patio...perhaps these will be similar to the set up of the sands/condo wings at Kalahari where rooms can be sold in multiple ways based on using connecting doors

The rooms can be sold as "hut" standard rooms, "lodge" one bed suite with kitchen, a combination suite which is one "hut" and "lodge" room using a connecting door to create a unified room or as a "village" suite with two "hut" rooms and one "lodge" using connecting doors to unify into a three room suite.

A small for why add as you put it xs cheaper or standard rooms typically generate greater profit per square foot then suites.

I think it’s also safe to add that none of the rooms at Breakers will be cheaper in 2018.

XS NightClub said:

TheRealMaverick said:

CPboy77 said:
But remember all 190 of those rooms were suites... I doubt the new 158 rooms in Breakers will all be suites....

Based on how close together the balconies are to one and other...I don't think there are any suites.

The historic Hotel Breakers, fresh off a $50 million upgrade in 2015, will add a six-story tower for lodging. It is to open in 2018........

They are selling out Breakers almost all year, why would they add cheaper rooms?

I didn't say the rooms would be cheaper I was using your verbage

I didn’t say you did. I was just pointing out the obvious given your mention of cheaper rooms.

All right fair enough lol...I am very curious to see the room layouts now

They also gained rooms with the expansion/renovation of Breakers Express, yes? Granted it's not technically "on-point", but it's still part of the Point.

Express is the ‘good’ part of Mr. Ouimets Good, Better, Best philosophy.
Also serves to fill the Sports Force parks demand and take some business from mid level Sandusky/Perkins options.

Better, Best seem to be the two options here.

Which property will fill those slots is yet to be revealed.

As it stands today:

Good: CP Express
Better: Castaway Bay
Best: Hotel Breakers

I'm glad to see Sandcastle go. Stayed there every year from 2002-2014, and several times in the 90s with my parents. The 2008 refresh was ok for the rooms but it was past time for it to be removed. I'm not surprised that it was demolished rather than renovated. My take on possible replacements:

1. Expanded Lighthouse Point. Maybe a Lodge style structure

2. A new hotel, marketed as the "best" option from the "good, better, best" idea (what I hope for)

3. More cabins, either as an expansion of Lighthouse Point or to allow for an expansion of CP Shores or CP Shores parking

I wonder if we'll hear anything at Chill Out about the future of that spot...

You people have some really interesting ideas about hotel rooms. I think you're making all the wrong comparisons, and I think the clear pattern for now is that the Breakers is the nicest resort hotel in the area, and it provides the amenities that Cedar Point visitors need. Who needs convention space at a hotel that is not only open only during the summer, but is fully booked at that time without convention traffic, and has lousy access? Quite frankly, I am not sure there is a huge market for super-deluxe accommodations at Cedar Point when they are already developing deluxe accommodations at a premium price.

I also think you're looking at some of the wrong numbers on Sandcastle Suites. Sure, the Breakers expansion will have enough rooms to replace Sandcastle, and the timing of the Sandcastle closure probably reflects that. But instead of counting rooms, what happens if you count beds? At least in the near term, tearing down Sandcastle and bringing in a whole bunch of trailers^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcottages may not be as many units as Sandcastle, but may have accommodations for more people. And with the deluxe accommodations over at Breakers just steps from the park, a Lighthouse Point expansion provides a different kind of accommodation that offers more space, room for a larger group, and separation from other customers. You don't get those fourth-floor lake views (but then neither do the customers on floors 1-3), but you get accommodations that have a lot of advantages especially for customers who almost exclusively travel to the resort by automobile.

Speaking of automobiles, here's another option: Maybe in the wake of the traffic nightmares this summer, there aren't any new accommodations planned. But for 2018, the remaining RV spaces could be relocated into the Sandcastle Suites space and the RV circle turned into parking lot expansion for Shores and the back of the park. I don't think it's either likely or even a good idea, but it makes sense on a map.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Perhaps the space will be will be utilized for entertainment options for resort guests that choose not enter either park. Maybe some upcharge activities like Put-Put and Go Carts. -Skyhawk06

Remember way back in 2012 and 2013 that a Sandcastle Suites renovation was stated as in the works (as well as Hotel Breakers & Breakers Express Renovations). Looks like they opted to just tear down and build new. There WILL be a new hotel on the site.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Real-Estate/2013/12/04/Cedar-Fair-begins...ark-1.html

http://www.toledoblade.com/State/2012/12/02/Firm-to-invest-60M-to-r...rties.html

It only makes sense to build a new hotel in that space, they would be leaving lots of money on the table if they just add some more cabins.

Pete said:

It only makes sense to build a new hotel in that space, they would be leaving lots of money on the table if they just add some more cabins.

Adding nearly 10% to the park's usable area instead of building a new hotel might make more sense. Not that it would tell the whole story, but I would be curious what the revenue per square foot of the park is compared to that of their hotel properties.

JeffH said:

Remember way back in 2012 and 2013 that a Sandcastle Suites renovation was stated as in the works (as well as Hotel Breakers & Breakers Express Renovations). Looks like they opted to just tear down and build new. There WILL be a new hotel on the site.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Real-Estate/2013/12/04/Cedar-Fair-begins...ark-1.html

http://www.toledoblade.com/State/2012/12/02/Firm-to-invest-60M-to-r...rties.html

Not to be rude, but those articles are from 2012 and 2013 respectively and plans may have and probably did change since those reports.

THAT said, I personally think a new, modern hotel or lodge style resort could be in the works. It's too prime of a location to waste on really anything other then new accommodations for guests. I know Ouimet is leaving but we know his lasting legacy is the renovations of the guest accommodations and coming from Disney he knew how important length of stay is to a successful amusement park. I doubt we will see that culture change any time soon. There's always room for premium resort options and various price points.

But I also would not be surprised if some camp sites and/or cabins are moved there. Plus additional cabins in a Lighthouse point expansion free up some space near Cedar Point Shore for either additional parking or waterpark expansion.

There are literally tons of options for this land. It could even sit as a green space for the foreseeable future until they receive more information on what the best use for the land could be

It'll be an exciting few months to see what develops this off season.