Sandcastle Suites

Pete said:

Going by Ouimet's good, better, best philosophy, it somewhat makes sense that Express is good, Breakers is better and a future Sandcastle replacement would be best.

Unless Ouimet already views Breakers as the best option. It of course isn't even close in my opinion but it could be for him. They have dumped a lot of money into that property so I wouldn't be surprised if they were doing that because they think it is their best option for accommodations.

Breakers is the best. It's not Mackinac's Grand Hotel, but it's the best they have. For now.
It could easily slide to the Better category should something more-better come along, and I agree the Sandcastle property is the best place to do it.

I keep going back to the thought that CP resorts are seasonal, though, and if it were me I'd carefully consider that before putting a lot of money into a deluxe resort or even a boutique hotel that would command a lot of money. I'm not sure the return would justify it.

When Sandcastle gets spruced up or replaced, I would be on the ship saying it becomes their best property for a couple reason.

If Breakers stays as the best and Sandcastle becomes the better(i.e. refreshed similar to Express), I see many people spending the extra $50-$100 a night on Breakers or sticking to a budget saving $150-$200 a night staying at Express. Compared to a Sandcastle V2 it would better/more amenities, better location, etc. for just a slight up charge. Sounds like a no brainer to me.

Additionally, it just doesn't make sense to me to have your best and most expensive property as the one with the highest capacity. Is there enough demand? I'll be surprised if it's at 90%+ occupancy the whole operating season, granted most hotels aren't 365 days a year, but for a 6 month season it's vital to get every bed filled every night.

Sandcastle was built in two phases...in '89 and '91 I believe. It was billed as the "premier property" before Breakers starting getting its renovation. (Sandcastle had three grand suites with jacuzzi tubs which were then mirrored in Breakers.) The success of Sandcastle was in no way guaranteed so they used more economical construction methods. Notice the wood floors under your feet as you walk the hallways...which create horrible sound transfer for rooms below. I suspect if they had known what a hit it would be you would have seen a more sturdy structure with more capacity.

The tip of the peninsula is the place for a "Grand Floridian" type property. If they tore Sandcastle down (along with the Breakwater Cafe) and started over they would have a nice footprint to build. They might even consider a hotel built over a parking garage and pool deck. The sweeping water views alone would be enough to justify a high room rate and the fact that it would be a limited season wouldn't really matter.

I saw mention of open balconies. A little side note is that I am responsible for the balconies being screened in. When I got to the resort (and worked in Accommodations) one of the biggest complaints we heard was the muffleheads in the rooms and hallways. I had come from Florida where screened in patios are common place (for the mosquitoes) so I suggested screening them in as a solution and, lo and behold, they were put in. That is probably the only lasing contribution I had to Cedar Point...but those screens are still there today.

The rumors I heard all summer were that the sandcastle suite was to be replaced by more cabins

The cabins also have the benefit of being written off as equipment for tax purposes (which is why they use the mobile version of cabins) and much less in property tax. So there is that.

I'm really liking the idea of a lodge style hotel back there. Something like the Grand Californian, and call it the Lighthouse Lodge. Tie it right in to the cabins/campground, and that whole area is a lakeside wilderness retreat. I'd totally stay there, even if it was priced considerably higher than Breakers.

Just stayed here for the first time last night. Found it on Hotwire for $67. It worked for me. Nice view on the balcony of the lake and Magnum. They could use some more late night food options.

$67? That is a steal.

Also if they are mobile they could be a temporary solution if Sandcastle gets to the point that there is no point in saving and upgrading. The cabins could be placed for a while and the design for a new Best hotel could be completed. I'm sure some of the other cabins will need to be replaced eventually too so having a few extras isn't a bad move.

With Ouimet coming from Starwood and Disney Resorts he would know what a top tier hotel would be and Breakers, while historic, does not offer the services that a top tier would offer. There should be a spa, the bathrooms should be tile with higher end finishes, Room Service should be available at all hours (limited menu overnight), Valet parking, Drycleaning on site. This is the Hotel that should be used for Weddings on Cedar Point. I think this could also extend their booking season. Even if the park isn't open if the hotel is nice enough and offers the right services people will come off season to get away.

tedders55 said:

Even if the park isn't open if the hotel is nice enough and offers the right services people will come off season to get away.

The park isnt going to leave a hotel open on property during the off season. What the heck is the draw to come to a hotel with a closed amusement park? Also, CP doesnt want people driving around the property with all of the off season maintenance and construction going on. Thats the last thing the park needs to worry about.

CP has Castaway Bay for a year round experience, but granted, needs a makeover.

DSShives said:

tedders55 said:

Even if the park isn't open if the hotel is nice enough and offers the right services people will come off season to get away.

The park isnt going to leave a hotel open on property during the off season. What the heck is the draw to come to a hotel with a closed amusement park? Also, CP doesnt want people driving around the property with all of the off season maintenance and construction going on. Thats the last thing the park needs to worry about.

CP has Castaway Bay for a year round experience, but granted, needs a makeover.

Well right now I can't even book Castaway from 11/3-11/5 so I don't even think they are playing in that game. I'm not sure if they are leaving money on the table, but both Kalahari and Great Wolf are bookable. This seems like a simple thing to sell during the off season.

I still think having a top notch full service hotel at that location would be beneficial. I would think the wedding/event space could make money hand over fist. And as for maintenance/construction concerns with the property being set back away from the park itself there would not be much interaction. It didn't stop them from doing the Steel Vengeance construction all throughout the summer.

Castaway Bay takes a break after the season closes for a few weeks and is not open. And then reopens for the rest of winter.

Kalahari does a very good convention center business year round. Castaway Bay or a new hotel on point could possibly cash in on some of that business. This may come in with the proposed indoor sports park.

You got it. I’m pretty sure castaway bay was on there for the same price, same night. Not many 3 star hotels in Sandusky.

XS NightClub said:

Castaway Bay takes a break after the season closes for a few weeks and is not open. And then reopens for the rest of winter.

Kalahari does a very good convention center business year round. Castaway Bay or a new hotel on point could possibly cash in on some of that business. This may come in with the proposed indoor sports park.

Yeah I had forgotten about that recent proposal to erect an indoor portion of the Sports Center. Are there site plans for it yet or is it still in the developmental/conceptual stage? Were they proposing to include a hotel on site too?

Plans have been submitted to the Erie county board with approval, construction could begin this year, and the site would be ready for games by early 2019.

I’d imagine that this of course was somewhat conditional based on how the existing sports center performed this season, which was reported as well above expectations.

I’ve not read anything about an additional hotel, however SFPark was loaded with deals for CP Express hotel, explaining the expansion and remodel.

A year round facility would incentivize CF to up their off-season hotel offerings to compete with the big indoor options down Milan rd. And CP Express cannot fit this bill, perhaps a Castaway Bay replacement. I’m not so sure on the idea that a Sandcastle replacement would be the best location, but Kalahari is pretty far off the beaten path as well.

Maybe a Sandcastle with Indoor Water park replacement for those crappy rainy summer days to give options on point for resort guests.

XS NightClub said:

And CP Express cannot fit this bill...

Why not?

If it could, it would be open year round to capture some of the conventions business.

Ah, I misunderstood you to be saying that CP Express wouldn't be adequate to support/capture year-round traffic from an indoor SFP facility.

tedders55 said:

I still think having a top notch full service hotel at that location would be beneficial. I would think the wedding/event space could make money hand over fist.

It seems unlikely to me. If I can book a Hilton and simply turn off the road into the parking lot, why would I book Sandcastle, where I would have to turn off the road, drive across the causeway, then around the park, to get to a hotel on the point of a peninsula that "enjoys" the cold winds blowing across Lake Erie?

Admittedly I'm an old spinster, but if I were going to have a destination wedding, the destination wouldn't be at a snow covered hotel with a necessarily generic event room outside a closed amusement park with nothing nearby to do.