Ridiculous Changes

Has there ever been an instance of somebody who was thrown from an Arrow looper because the restraint malfunctioned?

I noticed the seat belts on the Corkscrew yesterday as well. The belt is on the horsecollar and the clasp is atached to the seat (Raptor in reverse). There were a couple of smaller children who had trouble with the belt. By the time they had pulled the restraint down the belt would barely fit. At this point is Iron Dragon the only Roller Coaster without a seat belt?

ID and DT. However, I wouldn't be suprised to see seatbelts appear there, either.

MrScott said:
They probably feel the changes will help keep it that way, Matt. And the Higher Ups are NOT going to turn down a way to make the rides safer. Even if the change really makes no difference at all in ride safety.

Some of them are just too removed from ops to understand

In many of these instances, the decades of operational data and safety information should tell them that things are fine as is. I mean it's hard to argue that Gemini, having given probably 80 million rides, and Magnum, now over 32 million rides without major problems needed to be changed.

I definitely agree that the person or people that are pushing these changes are too far removed from operations to understand. They will understand a few years down the road when it hits them in the wallet though. People won't go if the operations suck. Six Flags has proved that in recent years. Why are we now followng in their footsteps?

J Ohde said:
I noticed the seat belts on the Corkscrew yesterday as well.

Seat bets have been added to the Corkscrew? When did this happen? Now thats ridiculous!

One word, Matt: Lawyers.

MrScott

Lawyers insist the park do things to keep themselves from getting sued.

Keeping yourself from getting sued does NOT increase guest safety- it lowers insurance premiums. By paying attention only to lawyers the park is putting their guests into harms way with things like the Magnum station reconfiguration, the "padding" on various rides, and nearly inaudible autospiels.

As a Magnum alum I was also disgusted by the new "safety" features on the ride. After seeing how they butchered the ride from an operations standpoint this year (and last year) I was so happy that I took an internship and didn't go back to work at the park.

Another negative result of all these anal-retentive "standard operating procedure" rules is that it makes the rides no longer fun to work any more. The Magnum crew went through several changes last season that made it less fun to operate...I can only imagine how much of a burden it is now.

The whole parks' employee morale (at least the day I was there) looked quite poor, and that was merely May!. This was even before a whole week of 90+ temperatures and increasing crowds after school was let out. Believe it or not, when the employees are miserable, the guests notice...and it has an effect on their day.

There were a few of us that saw the writing on the wall last season and luckily got out at the right time. If things don't change for the better quickly, I'm afraid we're going to be witnessing this downward spiral for quite some time.

They're probably trying to adhere to the modern standards set forth by that one standards organization (help me out, Dave). They can't be faulted for that. The issue is the implementation.

MDOmnis said:
They will understand a few years down the road when it hits them in the wallet though. People won't go if the operations suck. Six Flags has proved that in recent years.

No, we will just all be told the weather stinks, no matter how nice it may actually be.

I've noticed some other changes that seem to be in line with the standards organization Jeff talks about. The "chicken wire" around the White Water Landing queue and station area and the extra rails on the Mean Streak exit along with the filler pieces of wood in the fence are two examples. I think all the new Kiddieland fences are for the same purpose.

All that stuff is OK, but I am noticing a lack of speed in the workers. Corkscrew is terrible, Blue Streak is not much better. Monster loading was so slow it makes you not want to ride. Remember when they used to fill the pre-loading area in the Witches Wheel queue similar to what they do on MaXair? Not any more. I think they used to get in three cycles on Witches Wheel in the time it takes them for one now.

Remembering a time when the Blue Streak operators used to ride the running boards to pull down the last of the lap bars when the train was leaving the station, today's efficiency of operation leaves much to be desired.

Yes, Cedar Point still runs all the trains on most of the coasters. Flat ride operations mostly suck however, and the speed and enthusiasm on many of the coasters is somewhat poor. I hate to say this, but really the only thing that separates CP operations from Six Flags of late is the number of trains on the track. I hope someone sees the light and shakes things up a little, and returns operations to it's former glory.

Jeff: ASTM. American Society for Testing (and?) Materials. They're a standards-writing organization, but the ASTM standards are a lot more flexible than the crap that Cedar Point has been implementing this season.

I know that Ohio finally fully implemented the fence requirements this year, and that is part of the reason we're seeing a lot of new fences and gates this season.

I can't complain too much about the fences and gates. Although some of the gates are very poorly installed, that is to say they are in bad locations, or they are constructed in such a way that they cause problems. I'm still trying to remember which gate latch I snagged my shorts on Sunday and ripped them open. This is a safety improvement?

But who is making these safety decisions with no regard for operations? I understand why it seems to make sense to have designated operator positions for when the train is moving, or to have co-dispatch across the track and at the opposite end of the station from the doghouse...but all that assumes that those solutions are *practical*. We've talked about Magnum, and the fact that the way those elements were implemented on Magnum are an impediment to ride safety. Will there be an incident this season on Magnum because of the changes made up there in the name of "safety"? Almost assuredly. Anybody who has actually spent any time on that platform knows it. Heck, I saw problems up there two days ago. But unfortunately you know what is going to happen. Something bad happens, the word gets out, and instead of fixing the problem, they're going to find somebody to blame for it. That is, assuming it hasn't happened already.

Magnum is merely one of the most obvious places where they have problems. What I am seeing in the park this season is something I've been calling, "The Lawnmower Effect," where "safety" measures have been taken well past the point of diminishing returns, to the point where it negatively impacts the operation of the system, in some cases trading one hazard for another. My fear is that unless they have a bunch of complaints and a streak of minor incidents this season, park operations is going to be blind to it and the problem is only going to get worse. What happened to Operations? Are Legal and Loss Prevention now running the show instead?

It's disturbing to see, because it is hurting the park. And the park doesn't even see it happening.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

The fun is slowly leaving, and it doesn't help if Cedar Point doesn't have its staff on its side. I never been in Cedar/Gold dorms but they look pretty bad - great way to treat the hardworkers.

What about the fun ride signs that are know replaced by lawyer signs... I believe Dorney kept their ride signs and added the lawyer signs.

What about the spiels? Remember when the crews would pump people up or make people smile from the jokes they inserted into the spiel? The crews on Mine Ride saying how the ride went faster than Millennium Forces line... the spiels also usually gave cool facts about the ride(speed, height, etc.). You could call it being personable... it seems like thats the stuff people can remember. I bet most park regulars can remember a few good spiels from the major rides, but I bet they can't remember much of the auto crap.

Remember when the crews(not to knock any current workers, I just don't see this as much anymore) would interact with guests? I remember one time about 10 years ago the lady working entrance at Corkscrew trying so hard to convince this little kid who was scared to to ride that the ride would be fun. She was at loading when he got on the train(I sat in front of them) and was still pumping him up, and gave him a high five when the train returned. And this has been brought up here, and I can understand the reasons the crews don't say what is exactly wrong with a ride but most of the time they just say "its down, come back later." A few weeks back I was at Disneyland and the Pooh ride broke down - all the workers had this story to go along with it and how Pooh spilled honey and special workers had to come and clean it up. Even the adults were smiling when they heard that.

And while I don't want to get off topic here, the atmosphere is changing. I for sure notice. Instead of people at work and at family parties telling me how much fun they had at Cedar Point or plan on having, I hear stories about how "I'm not that big but I couldn't fit in the rides", "Top Thrill Dragster was down", or "They are charging 3 dollars for a 20oz now." Sure the park can't do much about some of those, but it seems like once a person gets upset, its easier for them to spot the little things like slower crews and such. If I'm in a good mood and talking with a few friends in line, I don't notice the slighty slower crew, but if I was just denied a ride on some of the big rides or the big star attraction was close, I may start taking notice of the smaller things.

So a small thing here, adding an auto-spiel there no biggie, but I think things are slowly starting to add up.

It's a shame that Cedar Point is getting so large that they are turning "corporate" like all the other theme parks. I think that they have been so successful because its been more of a "family run" park instead of a corporate run park. However, it is quite evident that the corporate part is taking over. I've been to CP every year (sometimes twice) since I was born and it holds very strong memories for me (like a lot of you have mentioned). However, its becoming less and less friendly and more and more common place. I know why these things are happening, but its still sad. Holiday World had a recent death on one of their coasters, and I don't think its making the park less family oriented, but Cedar Point is unfortunately taking its directions from their lawyers instead of the people that know what made CP famous in the first place. It says a lot to be the second oldest park in the country, but let's hope that they don't suffer the same fate that Six Flags is sufferening right now. I for one miss the friendly and enthusiastic ride ops that made the visit to CP a true experience.

CP 1984 said:
and gave him a high five when the train returned.

Giving a kid a high five as he entered a cabin on Sky Ride got me written up for "Horseplay" last year.

Ralph Wiggum said:

Gemini almost consistantly stacks with only two trains, which is just increadibly sad. Not only do they move very slow while checking bars, each train gets two bar checkers, and they have to double check. This means one person starting at the front, one in the back, crossing in the middle, ending at the other side, and slowly walking back to where they started before giving the clear.

I think the reason you see them stack trains now is because they can. They dont have to worry about a "C SET" anymore. Before with six trains you did not want to set up, if you did there better be a good reason. I believe thats why they move slower now.

*** Edited 6/15/2005 9:12:28 AM UTC by redwings***
*** Edited 6/15/2005 9:18:15 AM UTC by redwings***

bholcomb said:

Giving a kid a high five as he entered a cabin on Sky Ride got me written up for "Horseplay" last year.

You got to be kidding me. Now that's ridiculous! I used to see ride operators interact with guests like that all the time, and it wasn't a safety hazard. What's next? Getting reprimanded for shaking a guest's hand beacause he/she commented that the ride/attraction was great?!

The worst change for safety was when the interiors of the Blue Streak trains were "renovated."

Something to ponder - could the changes at the top of the operations ladder have something to do with all that's been mentioned here?

Do you mean Jack Falfas Scott? Wasn't he in charge of Ride Operations at CP for a long before going to Knott's, a time when operations were at their best?

My feeling is this falls more in the legal, loss prevention side of things. Though slow moving operators are inexcusable.

It is really too bad. At a time when it is more expensive than ever to go to CP, and since they are apparently doing national marketing, it is more important than ever for the park to keep lines moving and create the atmosphere that made CP successful in the first place.

*** Edited 6/15/2005 12:47:07 PM UTC by Pete***

How much longer before Paddlewheel gets a recorded narration?

ST - Let's hope so, and hope that the changes were because previous leadership was going overboard and not because they weren't doing enough.