Project 2007 Blog Update

Oh yeah! It looks like some track is up! Look at the webcam!

They have quite a bit up. That section looks to be a highspeed turn around.

Yeah, its a verrrrrrrrrrrry low posibility of 500ft hey I'd rather see a 500ft MF clone Than a 500ft Dragster clone.

Heck, the possibility is so low, it's in the negatives!

Dragon there isn't even a posibility of it happening.

EDIT: Beat me too it.

*** Edited 8/15/2006 7:17:49 PM UTC by CP4eva'04***

Wife does a lot of work with zoning to put up cell towers all over the mid west. Actually got to work with the CEO of Cedar Fair (her Company, T-mobile, put up the new cell tower in the park). Reason I mention this is due to building permits and freedom of information act. Some of you slappies who live in the actual township that cedar point is located in (it's not really in the city of Sandusky) should go down to the building department to see what you can dig up. That said, Cedar Point (from what the wife said) pretty much does whatever they want. In fact, the state and/or township may not even require them to apply for a permit. It is, however, worth a shot. Cannot take more than 10 minutes of someones time.
The other possibility is with the FAA. Whenever you put up a tall structure, you have to apply for it through the FAA. Cedar Point, could have a permit to put up anything less than 500ft or so, but that is also worth of shot. I imagine some of you guys are pretty young and have some free time on your hands to do some investigating.

http://www.pointbuzz.com/news.htm?id=947

If CP doesnt build a 500 footer next year when and who do you think will?

Either Six Flags or Japan. around 2008 or 2009 Cedar fair is also a strong possibility and what do think will come of SoB at KI?

I highly doubt CP will be building a 500' anytime in the next 5-10 years. There is simply far too much else out there in terms of variety that has yet to be exploited, and all can be done within the 200' height range. MF is still a World-class ride, and there would be NO point whatsoever in building something that tall.

Six Flags - probably not. They've got real management in charge now. I doubt we'll see much from them until they get their stuff together.

Japan - I don't know. It may be a while because they are still a little stuck with SD2000. I have a feeling they are waiting for the next year of the dragon to reopen. Granted that is only one park, but I would be surprised to see another park go over the 300 foot mark after the issues surrounding SD.

DJ- you are shooting yourself in your foot.

5-10 years is way too long to make such a statement.

in 1996- could you imagine 310ft coasters or 456 ft tall KK? Probably not seeing that Mantis was the newest thing that year. I would argue that in 5-10 years, that there will definitely be 500ft coasters- 10 years is an eternity with roller coasters and technology.

DJ- you are shooting yourself in your foot.

Thats funny dj doesn't believe in guns or violence ;)
*** Edited 8/17/2006 1:19:47 AM UTC by CDCP***

But the technology was fairly innovative in a PRACTICAL sense to make rides 300, and a testy 400, foot range.

We can't really see or predict anything coming along to make 500 work any better.

True, 10 years is a long time with any type of technology, but that's irrelevant. The technology is there, and has been for a while, yet nobody has built one. Don't you think there's a reason for that?

In 1989 they broke the 200' barrier, and 300' wasn't broken until over 10 years later. And, yes, they broke 400' a mere 3 years after that, but take a long, hard look at the outcome. We know that CP won't use hydraulic launch tech on a coaster taller than TTD until they get it working reliably, which will happen sometime in the next 5-165 years, most likely. So, the 500' coaster would almost definitely have a traditional lift hill, and such a coaster would be a lot like MF, which is still one of the most popular coasters anywhere.

A significant driving force in pushing coasters higher and faster throughout the 90's was the "coaster wars", which is all over with now. The competition to have the highest, fastest, longest has shown its inherent flaws and drawbacks, and now amusement parks are finally gaining some common sense again and realizing that there are actually other ways to get guests in the park.

Now, lets look at it from a ROI standpoint. CP has three (traditional/real) coasters that are over 200': Maggie, MF and TTD. Maggie is still a perennial crowd pleaser and gives a ton of rides to their guests every year. I would say that its one of the best investments CP has ever made. MF paid for itself in, I believe, 2 years - and someone correct me if I'm wrong. And, MF still draws crowds and has become synonymous with the CP skyline and is, like Maggie, a huge draw for the park. And TTD, while temper-mental, is a great thrill ride that will continue to attract crowds for years to come - especially if they can continue to improve its reliability in years to come. The bottom line is, CP doesn't need to build a 500' coaster, so why in the hell would they? Because some ungrateful enthusiasts think it would ROCKZORZ!!?

Finally, look at what coasters CP built between Maggie and MF: Mantis, Raptor and Mean Streak. All three are great rides, and the only possible exception (MS) is simply a lemon, yet still provides CP with a nice woodie to promote and many people continue to ride it year after year. Mantis, while not the most popular ride in the park, is great. Its fast, furious and flat-out fun. And then there's Raptor. One of the most popular rides in the park - year after year - and an absolutely spectacular addition to the park. Its a blast to ride and adds a lot to the look of the midway. All three of these rides are under 200'. And when you factor in the other attractions they've built in-between (and since TTD), the irrelevance of such a coaster becomes even more apparent.

So, while you may want a 500' coaster, the general public does not. At least not yet. The public wants fun, whether it come from a 170' coaster, or a 100' swing. There is simply far too much to be explored within the 300' range. Heck, there's still a ton that can be done in the 200' range. Look at the coasters being designed today for proof of that.

Absolutely agreed. I was thinking almost all of those same things but just didn't have the patience to type it all out like you did, so I'll just say I agree completely. ;)

Two more things I'd like to say about what I think.

One is that if a 500 foot ride was going to have a traditional lift, it is going to drive the cost up a lot. Not just the lift, but after the first hill the ride is going to have proportionately larger elements to accomodate the speed of the train. Everything will have to be bigger - hills, turns, everything. That just drives the cost and space of the ride up more.

Secondly, and this is a personal opinion, but 500 feet of a coaster hill seems more intimidating than fun. Maybe it's just me but I KNOW some of my friends would never touch the ride. They'd rather spend their day on the midway talking and watching it then get on it, and that isn't a good investment for the park. Going high is one thing, but scaring off customers is anything. Not to say that some in the world wouldn't do it, but the thought of staring at a 500 foot ride just makes MY jaw drop.. I don't even know if that'd be too much. I know severel of my friends who won't go on Dragster because it's too intimidating of a sight. I can't see 500 feet being any better.. ESPECIALLY drawn out on a legit lift like MF. Dragster is only one hill. This thing would be massive.

At 300 ft or 500 ft, you will die no matter what if you fell off it.

A traditional chain lift becomes very impractical after 200 some feet. For one is the time to get to the top, and the 2nd is the weight of the chain which would get to the point of being nearly impossible to feasibly pull the train.

The newest technology that we should be seeing in a coaster is EXTREMELY reliable. It wont need any cables that may fray. It will likely be steam. Check out how an aircraft carrier launches jets, it is speculated for that to be the newest coaster technology. Steam will enable 500ft heights, hell we are only 42ft from reaching 500ft.

Just curious, but does Intamin have a Booster Bike type ride in the works? Could this be a variation of that theme with a western type ride (horses?) like an old steeple chase ride.

A 500 ft. coaster whould probably hit speeds of around 140 to 170 mph or more. Judging from that new transition, you would be pulling 7 G's even if its later on in the ride. And that's a little high. I was one of the people that was hoping for a 500 footer, but now I think it's imposible. CP builds nothing but world class coasters (possible exception is Mean Streak) and this one will be no different.
*** Edited 8/17/2006 4:16:44 PM UTC by Mikerox527***

If I remember correctly, I think last year (maybe in the offseason) we all but determined that the terminal velocity for a coaster train was around 130. Not to say you couldn't launch it faster than that, but if you let a train fall from a hill (like a real coaster) it will max out around 125-130.

That's correct, John.