Point Pavilion

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
The reality is there hasn't been a record attendance year since 1994. While the park is immensely profitable, the park is trying to drive attendance growth.

Are you sure? How do you know they wouldn't prefer to cater to fewer people at a higher per cap?

To a business and shareholders, all that really matters is profit. Attendance means very little to them. I'd prefer fewer people at the park while they can still make money to maintain a good profit. The park is more enjoyable to me, when there are fewer crowds.

Not only is it more enjoyable for guests, but there's less demand for infrastructure also. And the park could certainly be helped by not needing as many employees in the shoulder weeks of the season.

Thabto said:The park is more enjoyable to me, when there are fewer crowds.

Sky, blue.

Thabto said:
To a business and shareholders, all that really matters is profit. Attendance means very little to them.

That's absolutely not true. If you don't think I'm right, check the stock price for SEAS when they last announced attendance.

Jeff said:

Thabto said:
To a business and shareholders, all that really matters is profit. Attendance means very little to them.

That's absolutely not true. If you don't think I'm right, check the stock price for SEAS when they last announced attendance.

But were the profits up? That documentary didn't do them any favors either.

Kevinj said:
I thought so. I'm sure someone with a more historical mind can chime in, but this would also get my vote.

Hofbrau lasted through the end of the 2006 season. The park held a Bavarian Funfest in 1981 and 1982.

Thanks for inspiring tomorrow's #tbt on Facebook. :)

http://pointbuzz.com/c/bavarian-funfest.aspx

djDaemon said:
Are you sure? How do you know they wouldn't prefer to cater to fewer people at a higher per cap?

How about both? Cater to more people AND at a higher per cap... Seems logical. They're getting both currently at Universal Orlando, which is seeing double digit attendance growth. I honestly think Cedar Point could see huge growth, but they're going to have to start thinking out of the box. I feel they've built and marketed virtually every type of coaster experience possible. I'm over it. You can only flip upside down and experience airtime so many times before you start needing a more well rounded experience. I am waiting for something completely different. Something that appeals to all ages. If they'd spend $30 million on on experience that caters to ages 2-95, I think they'd be surprised on the return. Instead they see it as a risk and invest in more "safe" capital projects like PipeScream which saw virtually no return on investment.

^ this (Brewfest) would be amazing if it could return. Don't see why they couldn't add a GermanFood/Beer Garden area and then add more to it during Halloweekends as a throw back to the old Geauga Lake Oktoberfest.

Honestly I am all about more "placemaking" as Matt calls it. Take a park like EPCOT, one of the world's greatest amusement/theme parks.... And (gasp!) not one roller coaster on site.

Bratwurst and Beer!!!! Now!!!!

Thabto said:

Jeff said:
That's absolutely not true. If you don't think I'm right, check the stock price for SEAS when they last announced attendance.

But were the profits up? That documentary didn't do them any favors either.

Yes, they were, and investors still punched them their oceanic balls.

Was looking at the plans for Kings Dominion's expansion:

http://newsplusnotes.blogspot.com/2014/10/kings-dominion-shows-off-...tails.html

All of the recent expansions chain wide at the various water parks have been significant. When looking at the expansions, all of them dwarf Soak City on multiple fronts. If Soak City was as profitable as everyone claims, wouldn't we see this kind of expansion?

No matter what happens, Soak City is in desperate need of a massive facelift to put it on par with the rest of the chain, and the industry. I see a huge expansion similar to what we've seen at the rest of the chain coming in 2016 or 2017. It just seems to be the pattern. Whether they combine gates or not, it is needed.

Back on topic (Point Pavilion), has anyone seen any changes over there recently after all of the construction/ utility markings in the summer? Still thinking somethings going to happen next year in that area.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
They're getting both currently at Universal Orlando, which is seeing double digit attendance growth.

In a completely different geographical region, where they can operate year-round, and cater to a much larger market.

Instead they see it as a risk and invest in more "safe" capital projects like PipeScream which saw virtually no return on investment.

According to...? Not only do you not have the metrics to make that claim, making such a claim after the ride's been open less than one season is colossally out of touch with reality. These rides are built to have an ROI measured in decades, not weeks.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
If Soak City was as profitable as everyone claims, wouldn't we see this kind of expansion?

So yeah, this comment sort of seals the deal that you know squat about business. No offense. :)

If SC is profitable, that means the value they offer is appealing, as-is. Why invest in something that requires no investment to be profitable?

They have made investment over the years, albeit minor. But again, that's a very strong indicator that what they offer is already compelling enough for their market. Throwing money at it for no reason would be a silly business move.

No matter what happens, Soak City is in desperate need of a massive facelift to put it on par with the rest of the chain, and the industry.

More of the same poor business reasoning. How do you know SC isn't on par with the rest of the chain? Have you seen the financials broken down and compared?

Anyway, that's not to say they won't expand SC. After all, regular cap ex is what keeps people coming back over the long haul, so it's inevitable that they'll add/update stuff here and there. But the idea that they need to expand to meet some arbitrary metric like "keeping up with the Kardashians?" That's just not how you run a business.

^ Thank you for your analysis of my post. Unfortunately, it falls flat as you have lost pretty much all of your credibility on this board with your over zealous opinion on the future of Mantis where you spoke as if you knew everything, and attacked all who disagreed (like you have done with me). You don't know me, nor do you have any clue what I do for a living which makes your opinions on my business reasoning laughable at best.

I don't speak is if I know everything. I am merely speculating on possibility. I also don't rudely attack others who have a different opinion than me, but rather give them space and ask questions on their reasoning behind certain opinions.

Give it a few years and we can return to the discussion on Soak City, afterall it took 10 years for the Mantis rumors to come true...

That's pretty much as convincing an argument as I expected you to come up with. ;)

^^ Actually, you kinda do speak as if you know everything..

Kettle, black. Don't feel bad though, everyone does, it's teh internets, where everyone is always right.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
Cater to more people AND at a higher per cap... Seems logical. They're getting both currently at Universal Orlando, which is seeing double digit attendance growth.

Because that wouldn't have anything to do with licensing what is arguably one of the hottest IP's available. It's not remotely applicable to anything going on in Sandusky.

There's a dude at CoasterBuzz who checks in once a month proclaiming that if they just spent more money on new attractions at Michigan's Adventure that it would be awesome and super profitable, etc. And yet, the park already has the highest margin in the chain.

Funny thing to me, is I can see Tilt-a-Whirl being 100% correct about Soak City. And I see that happening a lot sooner than we think.

Oh, so can I. I just can't see them using what essentially amounts to penis envy as justification. :)

I would think that with the right investments in SC (broadening the appeal rather than offering more of the same), the new Breakers could become a very high-end resort experience.

^^And I can see myself being 100% right about a lot of things happening in the "future" for the park. But I can also see myself being 100% wrong. However, I can guarantee the amount of @$%#& I won't give will be 100% in the event of being right or wrong.

There sure has been a lot of "You show me yours, I'll show you mine" going around here lately. I mean, since when does it really matter who's right or wrong? Speculation, as of recently, has been a lot less fun than it has in the past.