Perimeter Road Reroute/ Cedars Future Plans

A small mixed-use retail/entertainment center + hotel would be awesome. Something like the Boardwalk Hotel at Disney World. It could fit very nicely.

It would fit nicely expect for providing adequate parking. Where do the marina guests park? Parking is already at a premium here. How does adding a hotel that Cedar Point doesn't need help that?

Strictly speaking, don't marina guests park at their dock (or whatever the term is for where you leave your boat in a marina)? I assume you mean guests at Bay Harbor and guests who haul their boat to Cedar Point and put it in the water there?

Cedar Point probably doesn't need another hotel, but if Cedar Fair were to have numbers supporting the idea that another hotel would be profitable, why not add one?

I think it would need to provide a niche. Breakers has the beach/history. Sandcastle has the suites, Express is budget, Castaway Bay has the water park. Maybe a casino? Is that allowed in Ohio? I'm not entirely sure.

I'd say no to a casino; outside of Vegas, casinos tend to attract locals, not visitors, which adversely affects the local economy (because locals are spending their money at the casino instead of local restaurants, stores etc and the casinos aren't bringing in enough visitors to offset that).

If Cedar Fair were to add a hotel, they could go with an upscale boutique hotel, a kid- or pet-friendly hotel, a sailing-themed hotel... there are plenty of options.

99er said:
But the park has been using that style of fence for decades when it comes to either a perimeter fence or a solid fence to hide something. The previous fence was the exact same thing that stood for years from the Marina Gate all the way down to the Engine House. It doesn't look that bad and is a hell of a lot better than chain link with the slats in it. I'm not sure what everyone else wants in terms of a nice looking fence along the road. It seems like the perfect kind to use to me.

No doubt that land will be used eventually but thinking that it will be soon because of a "temporay wooden fence" is silly since that style of fence has always been used at the park

Yea you're right. There is quite a bit of that stuff around when I think about it - some by Gatekeeper, Dragster's queue, Raptor's queue, some over by Breakers by Magnum, etc. This just looks like a huge swath of it from the webcam. I guess I just don't like the look of it, but it does the job of hiding something and I'm sure the price is right. Still hoping that area between Valravn and the road won't be a permanent boneyard though.

I'm not sure a hotel in that spot makes sense unless they can somehow connect it with the beach and Breakers. I think if they build more rooms, it makes sense to do it where Sandcastle sits. Certainly a taller tower there would offer some Amazing views of the park and the lake. I like that current management hasn't hesitated to rid the place of things that are less than world class and I'd say Sandcastle sort of fits into that category.

noggin said:

Strictly speaking, don't marina guests park at their dock (or whatever the term is for where you leave your boat in a marina)? I assume you mean guests at Bay Harbor and guests who haul their boat to Cedar Point and put it in the water there?

Yes, people park at their dock (or as close as they can), but there isn't a lot of parking available especially from piers 11-14. That's where the Cedars is located. People cannot haul their boat to Cedar Point and launch. There are no launch facilities there during the season for use.

So noted, thanks. I have a boat phobia* so I don't know a lot about boats and marinas.

*I can't get in a boat. All I can think about is how it's going to capsize in the next minute and I'll drown to death.

JeffH said:

A small mixed-use retail/entertainment center + hotel would be awesome.

A mixed-use entertainment complex would be better than a hotel in my opinion. Another restaurant outside of the park would be nice and an actual marina bar would go over well. An expanded pool area for marina guests like what Pete mentioned would be ideal for those boaters spending the summer there. I'm just not in agreement that a hotel that would provide enough rooms to be worth the build would fit in that location without having to go vertical, which I don't think would look good there. The boaters current have a nice view of the park and I would imagine blocking that view would not go over very well. The space between the current location of Cedars and the Marina overflow parking is very skinny, basically a sidewalk and some rocks. So in that picture a lot of land would need to be filled in to support a hotel wing, or it would need to be built over the water. Either way the ROI wouldn't be worth it, especially considering the amount of boat slips that would need to be eliminated.

noggin said:

Strictly speaking, don't marina guests park at their dock...

Pete might be better at answering this but I would assume each boater with a dock gets a parking space as well. Not necessarily assigned but there should be enough parking for all the boaters, plus guests of boaters. On top of that the lots are used for Human Resources and those wanting to eat at Bay Harbor and Famous Dave's. And even then during the busy time you might not be allowed to park there for Famous Dave's. I know i have been turned around and sent to the overflow lot by Millennium because the lot was already filled up. I spent 11 years working at the park and the biggest gripe anywhere was that parking lot, both from the park and the boaters. This is the main reason why I believe when Cedars is removed it will become more parking and at the most Perimeter Road will be moved west a little bit to provide more backstage space within the park.

Again I really don't think the park needs more rooms at this point but if they did need to expand, there is better space elsewhere that could be used. I personally believe Sandcastle should be removed or downsized with that property becoming another hotel. Something along the lines of the Boardwalk at Disney should be run along the waterline where Breakwater Cafe sits. THAT is where a 4 or 5 story hotel should be place because it isn't blocking the view of the lake from anything other than the hotel parking lot and you would be able to get a lot of rooms with a bay/lake view.

MDOmnis said:

There is quite a bit of that stuff around when I think about it ....

.... Still hoping that area between Valravn and the road won't be a permanent boneyard though.

It really is used A LOT around the park when you start to think about it. It's pretty much been the "go to" fence at the park for 20+ years.

I'm sure it will be a boneyard for as long as the park needs it to be just as the ones that were at Lighthouse Point, Millennium's infield, DT boneyard, Mean Streak infield, etc. The park has always had multiple boneyard/storage areas around but they seem to get moved every few years or so as a new ride is built. This will be the new one until its space is needed. One thing I have never understood is why the park does move all the boneyards off-point since most of the crap in them is never used again.

That's never going to happen. There's no way you're ever going to have enough out-of-park of off-season traffic to support something like that.

The idea to add "shops," what kind of retail do you have in mind? You can only have so many gift shops and souvineers stores, and there's plenty of those inside the park. Even if the park constructed a retail district, the rates for leasing out those spaces to third party vendors would be super expensive, not to mention sharing percentage of revenue. In turn, the merchandise these vendors sell would have awful markup.

The Marina could use more parking, spaces are at a premium during much of the summer on weekends.

Every seasonal dockholder gets two Marina Platinum Passes plus one guest parking pass. The Marina Platinum Pass works just like a regular Platinum Pass with the addition of Marina parking lot privileges. You also get 10% off Famous Dave's, Bay Harbor and Quaker Steak and Lube. The guest parking pass lets a dockholder's guest past the toll booths at no charge and into the Marina lot.

Hopefully at least some of the Cedars land will be used for Marina parking as it is needed.

Noggin: having a fear of boats capsizing is not rational, it is just as irrational as the fear of turbulence while in an airplane.

99er said:
A mixed-use entertainment complex would be better than a hotel in my opinion.

"Mixed-use development is a type of urban development that blends residential, commercial, cultural, institutional, or industrial uses, where those functions are physically and functionally integrated, and that provides pedestrian connections." (Wikipedia)

By Mixed-use, I meant hotel + commercial + cultural uses. Like boardwalk. Done right, I don't think any boater would complain about having to stair at this; quite the opposite actually:

...I don't think any boater would complain about having to stair at this; quite the opposite actually...

I think elevators and ramps would keep the boaters from complaining.

If the sports complex wasn't going in on the former airport, that "mixed use" development would've been better suited on that property then the CP marina.

The Disney Boardwalk is not mixed-use by any stretch of the imagination. It has no permanent housing, grocery stores, office space or light industrial. It's a hotel with some restaurants and shops.

Pete said:

Noggin: having a fear of boats capsizing is not rational, it is just as irrational as the fear of turbulence while in an airplane.

Rationally, I know that's it not rational.

But you're still not going to get me to set foot in one of those floating death traps :-)

Heck, for years as a young 'un I had to lay down in the car for the drive across the causeway to the park. Seeing all the water to drown in freaked me out.

Hm. Maybe I have a drowning phobia, not a boat phobia.

If you want Cedar Point to build an entertainment district, tear out those camping pads wasting all that space by Soak City. What is this, the 1950's?

Flame retardant suit on. ;-)

I like the idea of the boardwalk. If something like this were to be built, CP could have all kinds of exotic food* stands, gift shops, and maybe a few small flat rides, similar to Knott's Boardwalk. It would be a good location to add things for families/groups to do** other than coasters.

* a b

** a b c d