New Slack Policies

Oh man. Calling Mean Streak a fine ride is surely going to attract the flames. Hope you brought a flame-suit. ;)

scooter1979 said:

I couldn't donate a kidney to save a life because of one of my genetic problems. Your gripe about getting on MF or TTD because of one of yours?... XL200 is a fine ride. So is Mean Streak. Learn to enjoy the park in all of YOUR capacities. I can accept that I'm not going to be on a shuttle to the Moon or Mars due to undeniable and insurmountable issues. Can you?

I wasn't really referring to myself. But I understand your point.

scooter1979 said:

Having an issue over not being able to meet a requirement of a certain size is like having an issue with letting those who are pregnant or those who have heart/back issues get on the ride. IT IS NOT SAFE.

A shorter seat belt or requiring some amount of slack does not make the ride safer. This has been discussed here over and over. The whole seat belt issue was passed down by Intamin in a knee jerk reaction over issues at a couple of other amusement parks.

And what if "something" happens at another park involving a similar (if not exact same) type of ride, where there were something wrong with the ride and someone gets hurt because the park / manufacturer did not inspect their ride? Now it gets down to liability of who is to blame. These are the policies set forth and whether or not they accommodate the entire population, we must follow them.

This is starting to feel like the thread we had last summer.

Was Millennium Force an unsafe ride in 2000, 2001, 2002 or 2003? Jeff made a good point over in a CB thread where he said, "The new requirements are to create the perception they (Intamin) care, not to make the rides safer."

I have no problem with the fact that not all rides will accommodate all guests. There are many rides that larger guests have problems with: maXair, Wicked Twister, Raptor, Mantis, etc. That's just a fact of life. Accommodating obese riders, though, is not the issue here.

It also doesn't help that what is happening here is that restrictions are being applied to rides that DO NOT share critical design details with rides that had problems.

Prior to modifications (I haven't been back since mods were done) I could put the lap bar down on Superman at Darien Lake, and then slide right out of the seat.

If I put the lap bar down to the same position on Millennium Force, there is NO WAY that I could slide out of the seat.

There, I said it. Now, given that the trains are NOT the same, could someone explain to me why an operational modification intended for one train would have any effect on the other, with the altered seat geometry?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Gee I hope the new rule is true.

A half-inch is a lot easier to pull than the full inch.

Which brings up an important point:

If you can fasten the seat belt, then pulling the belt to achieve any slack is a matter of strength in many cases.

I haven't been asked off MF or TTD in the last year-plus, despite weighing in between 240 and 250 pounds. And the crew has been very helpful in certain circumstances (wet belts, shorter belts etc.)

Despite my proportions, I'm generally able to achieve the one inch and am confident that a half-inch won't be a problem if these reports are true.

But why should I be able to ride, because I CAN pull the slack, while someone of similar proportions, who lacks the upper body or arm strength, should not?

I agree with whoever described this as a knee-jerk reaction to the events last spring at SFNE involving SMRS. The bottom line: That was operator error and/or belt design error on a grand scale.

But the slack rule discriminates against weaker individuals, both male and female. If you lack the strength, yer outta luck.

But if you are a spindly person who only has pulled a half-inch or one-inch of slack and somehow managed to keep the lap bar in a higher position, you would be less secure than the gargantuan person who managed to get the belt secured and got the lap bar all the way down.

This policy never has made much sense, except, I suppose, from a butt-covering, insurance viewpoint.

Walt said:

Was Millennium Force an unsafe ride in 2000, 2001, 2002 or 2003? Jeff made a good point over in a CB thread where he said, "The new requirements are to create the perception they (Intamin) care, not to make the rides safer."

Don't you think the first part of your quote is a little Pollyannish? Nothing has happened before, so nothing could happen in the future? If human error was (in part) why the original incident with a SF rider leaving the train and dying, who's to say similar human error couldn't happen at CP? What if the seatbelt length change (in Intamin's mind) helps reduce the odds of that human error occurring? Do we know all the data or information Intamin obtained or used to assist them in making this decision? I think.... no.

And as for your quote from Jeff... what context did he say that? Who's perception does he think Intamin is trying to change? Parks? Riders? The parks that buy from Intamin know the company well, and trying to change their perspective with what we see as an un-necessary change isn't going to fool anyone. So it can't be the parks. The general public? 99% of the people that attend amusement parks are oblivious when it comes to who made what ride. I bet only 1 in a 1000 can even name a ride manufacturer. They (John Q. Public), quite honestly, could care less. I don't think Intamin would willingly suffer the ire of all the parks who have to make these modifications and create all this strife among 'guests of exceptional size' just to change a perception that doesn't exist. I believe that they believe this makes their rides safer. It's not a real stretch in logic to assume Intamin really does make safety a priority. Why the heck wouldn't they? Do you really think the engineers at Intamin are totally indifferent as to whether people get hurt on their rides or not? Horse pucky.

Do I think this whole seatbelt issue was just a knee-jerk reaction to an isolated incident? Probably yes. I don't have any information to make me believe otherwise. But I can't buy into it being solely a PR stunt. As the manufacturer they have the responsibility and the obligation to make these rides as safe as possible. I see this as Intamin doing what they think is best to meet these obligations.

CPL

I was at the park Yesterday, and for some funy reason I fit in TTD test seat with 11/2 inch of slack. So, I went on with my brother-in-law (red train back seat left hand side) and I had a hell of a time to pull 1/2 inchbut I got it. Once again seat belts are not the same to the test seat. So now what happens when a man or woman pulls the 1/2 inch slack on the test seat but when the man or woman gets on the ride and can't pull the slack?? They kick them off or do they let them ride without slack??

My fiance and her brother went on MF, (Since I am still a fat azz to ride MF still) my fiance got on the blue train,the staff member buckled her seat belt, was never check for the 1/2 inch slack nor to see if the "T" bar was tight against her lower torso. So now CPMATT since you are the MAN on knowing how things work with Intamin Policies and Cps Policies what shall be done?? OR if anyone else on here like to comment please do so. I and others at the park would like to know how Intamin and CP can get on the same page and have both TTD and MF on the same page also with this issue.

TTD and MF shouldn't be on the same page with this issue. They are 2 different rides with 2 different train designs.

And when your wife got her belt buckeled, wouldn't the op have known then if there was a half-inch or not? As for the lap bar, I don't know how that could have gone unchecked.

If you get to the train and can't pull slack, its too bad. It doesnt' matter what happens in the test seat because the test seat doesn't go 120 mph. I've heard (from somewhere on here) that they replaced all the belts so they are, for now, the same length. The elements and use affect each belt differently, some get stretched out more than others and some don't loosen up as much, making it harder to get that 1/2 inch for a larger rider. There is only so much the park can do to try and make things the same.

Top Thrill Dragster doesn't have the problem of its test seat seatbelt being longer than the ones on the actual ride. I can pull the same slack on the test seat as every seat of every train on Top Thrill Dragster. Only Millennium Force has the problem of every seatbelt being a different length.

I weigh 215lbs and have a 37" waist. I can pull over an inch of slack on both Millennium Force and Top Thrill Dragster.

JuggaLotus said:

If you get to the train and can't pull slack, its too bad. It doesnt' matter what happens in the test seat because the test seat doesn't go 120 mph. I've heard (from somewhere on here) that they replaced all the belts so they are, for now, the same length. The elements and use affect each belt differently, some get stretched out more than others and some don't loosen up as much, making it harder to get that 1/2 inch for a larger rider. There is only so much the park can do to try and make things the same.

You are right, the test seat does not go 120 mph or 93 mph. But the fact of the matter is, say a person pulls that 1/2 inch or more on the test seat, waits 2 hrs to get on and then finds out that person can not pull that half inch nor buckle the belt?? Like I said before, what can they do then?? Can't they hand out belt extansion(sp) at the test seat showing the crew up on the loading dock that person did fit in the seat and pulled a 1/2 inch just incase that person get in a seat where that person can not pull that 1/2 inch or buckle the belt??

Yes, I do understand that MF and TTD are differant coasters but when it comes down to belt sizes, I honestly think that all belts should be the same size.
*** Edited 6/13/2005 4:49:47 PM UTC by MF_Man***

CPLurker said:

Do I think this whole seatbelt issue was just a knee-jerk reaction to an isolated incident? Probably yes. I don't have any information to make me believe otherwise. But I can't buy into it being solely a PR stunt. As the manufacturer they have the responsibility and the obligation to make these rides as safe as possible. I see this as Intamin doing what they think is best to meet these obligations.

CPL

This is entirely a PR stunt. What we have here is a company who's image has been tarnished and is doing everything they can to prove to parks who are considering buying an Intamin ride that every ride is safe. They're using this as something that you put in the back of your mind when buying a ride. Now, I'm probably one of the twelve Americans who haven't been watching the Jackson fiasco super close, but from what I've gotten the accucser's mom's previous accusations were not entered into official evidence. However, if the prosecuter said these accusations once, the jury knows and will weigh into the decision weather or not the judge allows it. It's the same thing will Intamin. They want to put one more thing into the consumer's head when they are looking for a company top build there 300 ft. ride.

2. It is impossible to have the test seats the exact same as the belts on the rides with the elements these rides face. The belts will stretch and bend and contract differently than the test seat. The test seat belt I'm sure isn't given the same testing that the belts on the trains are given. I'm sure it doesn't have hours of pushing and pulling to try to warp it and make sure it works properly. Intamin and Cedar Point is not to blame for this.

I don't know if anyone's seen this, but I've found a pic of TTD's new slack policy on Point Xtreme:

http://images.pointxtreme.com/displayimage.php?album=14&pos=9

*** Edited 6/15/2005 9:47:30 PM UTC by Erikjc***

On the ride today (MF) I noticed that with the 1/2 inch rule, things are getting somewhat better. I hardly noticed any seatbelt problems at all. Now if the crew would at least pretend they care about hitting interval, the ride might get decent capacity again. As for me: No FreeWay= No Millennium Force.

You don't even understand. With all of the things we have to do now before dispatching the train, each of the crew members has to be PERFECT to even come close to hitting interval. Usually we will hit one every few hours. I can't go into details about recent events, but they have led to some new rules that really slow us down.

To add on to what beltxies64 said, our crew has gone through a lot so far this season. That is no excuse for not hitting intervals and having a slow line. Unfortunatly we've had a crew overhaul in recent weeks, just as everyone was on the same page, people got moved. WE are doing the best that we can and we ARE trying to hit intervals and move our line as quickly as possible. We don't like hearing the guests complain about the length of our line or how slow we are moving. Things have been better in recent weeks and our lines have been moving faster. Instead of 500-600 hours we are constantly hitting 800-900 and even 1000 hours. Then new 1/2 policy has made everything a whole lot easier on us and on the guests. It's only going to get better as the summer goes on.