New for 2005

They probably changed the name of the waterpark because they wanted no association with SF anymore. Some people probably haven't heard that CF now owns the park and if joe schmo hears hurricane hannah SF sticks in his head.

Why a waterpark, personally I'm not too big on them, but it's not about what I want it's about what the clients want. And what has every big park in Ohio done lately....hmmm....BIG waterpark. It must be drawing in people. Seems to me it is starting to rival putting in big rides.

I like the move, there taking action and separating themselves from the SF name. And right now that doesn't involve throwing in coasters. Probably because the customers in that area know that park very well and probably think "well SF threw in coasters and the park still sucked, I hope CF doesn't do that". Now their focusing on fixing up the park and customer service, back to basics.

ShiveringTim said:

The RWB and Villian rehab and the ride relocations are just gravy - sweet, sweet gravy :)

Sounds more like pure chocolate to me!

*** Edited 11/11/2004 12:59:39 AM UTC by Fastball84***

It was either call it Wildwater Kingdom, Soak City, or (the still single) Wildwater Adventure.

Cedar Point is too close to call it Soak City (and they seem to reserve Soak City as a name for extra cost parks) and it would be a real concern with people confusing them.

Anyway... as for the old water park, it seems the only thing open over there will be the wave pool and lazy river.

However, Rider, I can't imagine Wild Water Adventure lasting much longer under that name. The waterpark is the biggest draw to Michigan's Adventure, and a nice big rennovation (Funnel of Fear is a great start) with a new name like Geauga Lake is doing would be all we need up here to bring in the people they want.

Is it true CF reported a loss from GL of $2,000,000 in '04?

$2,000,000? I doubt it. I don't think it was that bad. 2004 is a write off year, IMO.

ReBoot, Start Over, Clean Slate. Pick your term. GL Wins! CF has the right idea with this park.

Now that the water issue has been (somewhat) solved at MiaAdv, what are we gonna get (After being under Cedar Fair management for YEARS). A Funnel for the water park is nice, but I want that Hyper that was supposed to be here years ago. Or was that all a ruse to swing CF to buy MiAdv from the Jourdans? HMMM...

MrScott

MrScott *** Edited 11/10/2004 11:47:51 PM UTC by MrScott***

Remember, kids...it's all about the return on investment on each individual park. Just because something works at one park...doesn't mean it will work at another.

-M.

WWA will not change the name, casue its not a NEW water park. Expect all you want, but then expect to let down. Unless they change everything in the park and give it a totally new theme and make if feel totally different, so it pretty much is new will it recieve a new name. It also dosnt need that major of a change cause it is already a great water park and the locals and most of the guests love it. Yes it could always be better, and it is.

But there is no need to make it a totally new water park because its a decent water park. Why change a good thing with an already good reputation thats only getting better.

Froshy, what do you mean by the people they want. They already get the type of people they want, and thats families, they just need more of them. Building Funnel of Fear will help atract more of them, because the Water Park has always had a good reputation in the area, the rest of the park however has not. Its the amusement park that needs to get a good reputation and a major change no the water park.

What GL is doing is not giving a water park a new name, its building a NEW WATER PARK. thats totally different. Its not a renovation of the older water park, its a NEW park in a new location, and they happen to have one identicle ride as the old park. MIA is building a new water park, giving it a new name would give the perception that its a new park, and it wouldnt be. It would be the same park with just a new ride, and maybe a different color scheme.

Unless they totally renovate everything at once which there is absalutly no need for, would they have any reason to change the name. The only ther reason to give it a new name would be if the water park had a bad reputation and they needed to get rid of that reputation by totally redoing the entire place, and make it completly differnt, but WWA has a great reputation, and why ruin a godd thing. *** Edited 11/11/2004 12:33:41 AM UTC by RockingRollerFarm***

All I gotta say is that if Geauga Lake can get this, when does CP get a nice, new updated Soak City? I am tired of having my back ripped apart on old water slides.

With the water Park going on the old Sea World Side this gives that side a water park only area {or until later days}. Which in turn give the other side to roller coasters and 3d shows. Which as everybodys knows gives more room for COASTERS {YAY}. So it would be like two different islands but they are the same park.{If anyone gets that}

I was just talking about this with someone at Kings Island last weekend...Cedar Fair is absolutely on the right track with this one.

I'd heard they were moving the waterpark (again), and my comment at the time was that they couldn't go the Soak City route with Geauga, because at Geauga Lake, like it or not, the waterpark is what drives the gate. FunTime set that situation up years ago, and that's why nobody went to Geauga Lake in 2004: Ohio was too @#$! cold for waterparks! Cedar Point even had THAT problem with Soak City.

It looks to me like they have the right idea to turn Geauga Lake around, and I suspect it will work. Does anybody else here remember that Geauga Lake was one of the first (if not the first!) amusement parks in the country to include a waterpark as part of the package? (They were also the first to allow season pass interoperability across the chain, but that's another story).

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Pete said:
Wildwater Kingdom is at Dorney, but how many people in the area know that, or even care?

I've been to Dorney, and I didn't realize that was the name. Of course, it explained why the coasters would clear out in the middle of the day on a weekend in June.

I have one question. Do you think shipwreck falls will be shipped over to that side of the park. If so that would give a vary large area to work with. And as of right now 11-10-04 GL has made a commitment to the history of the park with the picnic pavilions. could it be possible that GL would get a lost kenneywood section. this would include the rocket ships rotor ect.

MrScott opined about GL's losses: $2,000,000? I doubt it. I don't think it was that bad.

Net income from Geauga Lake is much worse: they've lost $9,000,000 so far. They'll lose more now that the park is closed. Plan on a $10,000,000+ loss for the 3 quarters they owned it in 2004.

So, this is the big announcement? If only 700,000 showed up for the rides & waterpark last year, I'm not sure I see 2,000,000-2,500,000 paying customers (probably the break even number with the new lower admission) showing up next year for the same rides and a relocated but somewhat improved waterpark. Maybe their goal is to make Soak City irrelevant. They might succeed there.

I'm keeping my eye on the GL financial tally, largely because I believe it was a horrific mistake and will negatively impact other parks like Cedar Point:

• $145,000,000 to purchase (plus financing expenses)
• $9,000,000 in GL losses during the first two quarters
• $24,000,000 to "rearrange" and add to the waterpark in 2005/2006
• "who knows how much" dumped into "improvements" and "re-theming" during the first year (not all showing up in net income)
• "who knows how much" in "lost opportunities" redirecting key employees away from other "profitable" projects

MrScott, I agree that 2004 was a "write-off." However, it looks like 2005 has already been sacrificed as well ($10 lower gate price, a seemingly desperate effort to get "anyone" through the turnstiles.) When you see the inevitable cutbacks at Cedar Point (reduced staffing, reduced operational expenses, reduced capital spending, etc.) chalk a good portion up to the "Geauga Lake drain," even though the executives will never admit it was even partially responsible.

P.S. If a company is going to dump a bunch of money into a state-of-the-art waterpark, why pick northern Ohio as a location to do that? They would have been far better off leaving GL to Six Flags and building a fantastic $200M waterpark down south... THAT probably would have been profitable in year one and would provide a 12-month stream of fairly consistent revenue.

Twisterdm said:
Do you think shipwreck falls will be shipped over to that side of the park.

I never was a big fan for Shipwreck Falls, mostly on the design and location. It always appeared tacky looking to me. Cedar Fair should just remove it completely. Maybe in the years to come a new water ride can be constructed, with a dark ride combination of Pirates of the Caribbean quality and a drop for the finale similar to Snake River Falls.

If officals of CF intend to make Geauga Lake a more regional and family oriented amusement park, those are the type of rides that might work well. The relocation and reconstruction of the water park is a great start. Yes, it's always cool to install a new thrilling coaster, but go for a great variety of amusement park rides.

TTD sinking, I think you are painting a far too negative picture. The sales dept. will have an entire off season to get corporate groups in, expect a jump in group sales. Plus, the new water park will create a lot of interest, and combined with the lower admission price, expect a jump in walk up attendance also.

I think 1.5 million is pretty realistic for next summer. Looking at finances very simplistically, .7 million people at $35 dollars each would bring in 24.5 million dollars. 1.5 million people at $25 would bring in 37.5 million dollars. Your loss is made up right there.

I think lowering the gate price is going to make a huge difference. And moving/creating a newer, larger waterpark on the wild life side makes much more sense to me as well. Those two things alone will increase the draw...it's not lowering the price for the same old thing. Locals especially are going to feel like they are getting more for their money.

I'm very happy I opted not to renew my CP season passes until this morning. I was going to get the GL add on because I figured it was cheaper than a one day ticket to GL, but I know I'll probably only have one trip to GL next season.

With the lowered gate price and only one trip likely, I'm going to save my money for now. It would make more sense if I didn't live 3.5 hours from GL.

Pete, 700,000 attendance and minus $10 million net income for GL in 2004 is an ABSOLUTE DISASTER. There's no other way to spin that. They'll have to take very aggressive (read: desperate) steps to keep from looking completely incompetent for buying the property. They need to show progress. ANY progress, even if it needs to be "bought."

There's no doubt GL attendance will increase significantly (how could it possibly get worse?) Including GL with the CP combo pass will ensure that. Placing emphasis on corporate outings (probably "giving them away" to anyone remotely interested) will ensure that. Spending huge amounts of money (I'm anticipating) advertising their "new water park" will ensure that. Lowering the admission price will ensure that.

They've all but spelled it out: their plan is to "buy" attendance. However, while attendance goes up, the bottom line (-$10M+ in 2004) could deteriorate further (not a prediction, but a possibility with this approach.) Watch GL's net income, cash flow and operating income. Those will be far better measures of performance for 2005 than attendance.

Unfortunately, this whole "Geauga Lake drain" negatively impacts other Cedar Fair parks, where the money could be better spent. Are they really getting the best "bang for their buck" rearranging/improving an outdoor water park in northern Ohio? That's a sad state of affairs for the entire company if true.

First off, there is no "drain." Each park has to recover its own cap ex investments. That's why they don't build a Dragster-class ride at Valleyfair. Besides, if you consider $10 million a "drain" for this company, you should look harder at the balance sheet.

This isn't some guess they're making. The Cedar Fair parks have to budget, literally day by day. Each day has a set attendance goal, HR budget, etc., and based on that budget, they set pricing.

TTD is sinking too! said:
Are they really getting the best "bang for their buck" rearranging/improving an outdoor water park in northern Ohio? That's a sad state of affairs for the entire company if true.

Yeah, water parks are a real disaster. Just ask Holiday World. Or Dorney or Michigan's Adventure. Or PKI. Or SFGAm where they're spending even more on a totally new park. Cue the Captain Obvious speech about water parks.

Leave the business planning to the people with a track record. *** Edited 11/11/2004 7:59:13 PM UTC by Jeff***

I have a track record! It came with my Coasterbuzz membership. ;)