Mystery Construction

The fact that KI has a flyer means nothing to CP. Generally speaking a flyer at CP would be very exciting for the GP. People can certainly tell the difference between sitting on a invert and laying down in a flying position, it couldn't be easier to sell.
Trust me the only people you will hear saying the ride sucks is enthusiasts. You won't here one GP say "This is forceless, all flyers suck except Tatsu...If I wanted to ride a ****ty flyer I'd go to KI".

CP only builds innovative, original coasters. Rarely is there more than 1 of any existing coaster style before they build it.

Translation: They ain't ever gonna build a flyer or a floorless. Sorry.

You mean like stand-ups?

I count 11 pre-Mantis and only 3 after.

To expand a bit on what Chuck Wagon stated, either the coaster is innovative, or breaks every world-record for that type of ride.

Or they make up a new category (terra-coaster) ;)

But, I can't think of a coaster installation that did not break records dating back to Gemini.

Woodstock's Express?

Just because its not a new design doesn't mean CP can't make a flyer different than other flyers out there.

If CP only added new ride types to the park then we would have had a 4D by now.

^ I don't think so. Mainly because around the time period that X was added at SFMM it seemed Cedar Point had already set it sights on the tallest and fastest record again. Then after X opened up and it became such a capacity/maintenance nightmare I don't think Cedar Point would have seriously considered it. It was not until just recently with the transformation of X into X2 that the 4D design has truly worked the way it was supposed to.

Ryan

Kevinj said:
But, I can't think of a coaster installation that did not break records dating back to Gemini.

Looking at the 12 coasters since Gemini, 7 of them broke records. I'm not including records such as most coasters, most rides, etc. Those are records attributed to the park and not specifically the ride.

1979 - Jr. Gemini

1985 - Avalanche Run

1987 - Iron Dragon

1989 - Magnum - Tallest, Fastest, Steepest, First over 200'

1991 - Mean Streak - Tallest and Fastest Woodie

1994 - Raptor - Tallest and Fastest Inverted

1996 - Mantis - Tallest, Fastest, Steepest Stand Up

1999 - Woodstock Express

2000 - Millennium Force - Tallest, Fastest, Steepest, First over 300'

2002 - Wicked Twisted - Tallest and Fastest Impulse

2003 - Top Thrill Dragster - Tallest and Fastest, First over 400' (unless you could Superman at Magic Mountain :) )

2007 - Maverick

So, we can say that, excluding the kiddie coasters, CP's coaster installations are either

1) Innovative/unique (AR and ID were at the time)

2) Record breakers

3) Or both

I don't think AR or ID were innovative/unique. Neither was the first of its kind.

^ I have to agree, Innovative and Unique tends to mean it's the first one of it's kind. I wouldn't even really consider Top Thrill Dragster Innovative or Unique. Granted it was bigger and faster, but Xcelerator opened in 2002 debuting the hydraulic technology.

In my opinion, Big Bad Wolf which came out 3 years earlier is a much better Suspended than Iron Dragon.

About all you could say about Avalanche Run is that it was the first in the Midwest. I'm really not a fan of the steel bobsled coasters. Of the steel bobsleds, I prefer the Mack version over Intamin. I of course am way to young to ever have ridden any of the Flying Turns, but from what I hear from the people who have already ridden the one at Knoebels, I'm thinking that it will be my favorite Bobsled Coaster once it opens.

JuggaLotus said:
You mean like stand-ups?

I count 11 pre-Mantis and only 3 after.

Jugga, to play devil's advocate here, if you look at the B&Ms that were built, Mantis was the 4th, the first in 4 years, and was over 50' taller than any existing B&M stand-up. Granted, there still have only been 3 built since, and nothing since 1999.

I agree. My point was that writing off a style of coaster based purely on the fact that its not the first 1 or 2 of its kind is ridiculous.

Write it off because flyers just plain suck.

Let me be a little clearer;

I mentioned that Cedar Point's coaster installations are all either 1) innovative/unique, 2) record breakers, or 3) both.

I agree Big bad Wolf is far superior to ID (in fact, it's in my top 10 favorite coasters of all time simply due to its....(drumroll here)....uniqueness.

From my perspective, Iron Dragon (the 4th Arrow suspended ever constructed) is still a unique ride experience, and was unique at the time it was constructed. There are only 6 operating Arrow suspended coasters on the planet; to me, that makes it unique. In other words, you can only find a ride like it in a handful of places.

The same is true for Disaster Transport...as much as I loathe the ride, it is one of what...4 operating Intamin bobsled coasters on the planet? That makes it unique.

I was not implying that by "unique" I meant "one of a kind"...althought that is a direction they have gone in (Maggie, MF). They have always fit one or more of the criteria I mentioned above since Gemini (excluding the kiddie coasters).

So, whatever is coming...it will push the envelope in one way or another.

Oh. And a little bird told me it will involve water ;)

^I can believe it involving water. I remember someone saying that Cedar Fair opens sees how ride types go in other parks before adding them to CP, if that's the case then I wouldn't be surprised if the next attraction had a splashdown.

Kevinj said:
I was not implying that by "unique" I meant "one of a kind"

That is the definition of unique.

You could say Iron Dragon was unique to Cedar Point. But it was not unique in and of itself except for the fact that it has a different layout than previous installations. And seeing as how we agree that it's not better than previous installations, I'm not sure what else to say.

JuggaLotus said:

Write it off because flyers just plain suck.

Hehe, I was trying not to be too subjective. ;) It's probably also worth noting that between 2006-2007 Cedar Fair had both a flyer and a floorless nearby that needed new homes.

Then again, you could also just argue they don't install 'used' coasters.

JuggaLotus said:

Write it off because flyers just plain suck.

Have you ridden Tatsu?

I haven't ridden either Tatsu or Air which are generally considered the best of the flyers. I'm working off the assumption that like stand-ups, flyers all generally feel the same, even though some are definitely better than others.

And, like stand-ups, they're gimmicks (that people will want altered with new trains or something, once the novelty wears off).