MF Island - Construction?

Coasters don't exactly = revenue. Does a coaster impact attendance? Yes...to some degree. But, as far as I know...the biggest year on record at Cedar Point is still '94 - Raptor...yet many record breakers have been built since then.

The peak attendance at Cedar Point has likely been met. What adds to revenue is increases in per cap spending and resort accommodations. Those are areas that have seen the biggest impact to the bottom line. That is why you have seen additions to the Breakers, Lighthouse Point, Breakers Express, Radisson, etc.

Yes, all excellent points. I guess a better statement would have been: coasters = attendance. Your comments concerning revenue are very accurate and I agree 100%, but I was refering more to attendance revenue as opposed to resort revenue. The turons don't come to the park to stay at the hotels, they come to the hotels to visit the park. And after the rapid growth and success of the resort atmosphere at WDW in Orlando in the 90's it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it might not be a bad idea for CP to invest some money into it's accomadations. Thus was the birth of Breakers Xpress and the new additions at Breakers, then later the Lighthouse Point projects. They don't re-invent the wheel at the point... lol. Had it not been for (then) Great Bear (now Great Wolf) Lodge CP never would have even thought of building an indoor waterpark at the Raddison. Great Bear show'd them it could be done, and that it could be profitable. Thus, Castaway Bay.

What is the one big thing that has happened since '94 that could account for lower attendance at CP? Cheap air travel. The internet has allowed the airline industry to use the 'Wal-Mart' philosophy of retail - less profit per seat, but sell more seats. Many families spend their summer vacation budget traveling by air to places near and far. When I was a kid CP was it for us in the summer. If you wanted to go to Florida, you drove. And that takes time. Flying wasn't an option. Nowdays there isn't anywhere in the lower 48 you can't get to for $300 or less. Daily flights to Florida from Cleveland, Columbus or Detroit are $140 round trip. My theory could be tested this summer as airline rates are way up due to higher fuel costs.

I would agree that the revenue streams generated by the resorts has made Cedar Point less dependant on attendance revenues to make a profit. But you are still going to have to make them there coasters bigger, faster, and cooler to keep people coming back and paying those $250/night room rates.

CPLurker

"Bring back the Penguins!"

Coasters...particularly world record ones...certainly draw attention to an already popular park. But, you would be surprised how many people stay at the resort who don't necessarily have coaster riders in their families.

Cedar Point is an overnight destination because there is plenty to do for everyone. If there were only coasters I suspect the hotels would not have been built. Soak City...with a total of 0 coasters is as much of a reason for the hotels success as anything.

That makes more sense than how I said it... lol. I guess we (or I) tend to overestimate how many people come to the park specifically for the thrill rides. Variety is definately a plus for the park proper and I was not trying to diminish the importance of that variety. You can be 80 and still enjoy a full day at the Point!

I would disagree with your SC comment though. I think having Challenge Park and Soak City give variety to families coming to the Point, but I wouldn't put them on par with the park itself in regards to the resorts success. They may use both while they are here, but make no mistake about it - the Park is why they are here. Soak City was originally built as a single day destination waterpark to draw on the people within an 1 or 2 hours drive away. I would be willing to bet the Camper Village people would probably make up the majority of resort visitors to SC. I think most Breakers and Sandcastle suites peeps are more than content to vegitate down by the pools while their kids play in the water or on the beach as opposed to the added expense of the 'ride and slide' ticket (try to find a lounge chair mid-day at one of the Breaker's pools). I have no solid evidence to support this so your opinion could be a heck of a lot closer to the truth than mine. I just know most of the people I am friends with (and are at my income level) who spend the weekend at the park tend not to use SC. But that only represents a very small cross section of visitors to CP. Regardless of the reasons, the resorts are working out well for CP. On THAT, I'm sure we can both agree! :)

See ya on the Midway!

CPLurker

"Bring back the Penguins!"

Ah...no. A family from Detroit can go to Sandusky, do Cedar Point, and return home in a day's time. A family from Detroit cannot got to Sandusky, do Cedar Point, Soak City, and Challenge Park without having to stay the night.

If you are an 11 year old boy and your parent drives by Soak City on the way to the hotel...how content will you be when your dad tells you you will not be going on the waterslides but you can swim in Lake Erie or sit by the pool?

The hotels are a success because people have a reason to stay for more than one night. And the shoulder seasons are still successful because package prices include starlight admissions, tickets, challenge park, etc.

Well then we'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

CPLurker

"Bring back the Penguins!"

6 page thread and still nothing to look at? Can a CPer stuck in columbus get some pictures to support these conspiracy theories?

Yeah this thread has totally changed from it's original purpose.

CPLurker said:Everyone at Cedar Fair/Cedar Point are still sore about Intamin whoring out the TTD clone to Six Flags.

I very much doubt that anyone who is anything at Cedar Fair thinks that Intamin is "whoring" anything, or is "sore" at them for building Kingda Ka. And if you have a company in the business of building roller coasters, would you refuse a 25 million dollar project? I think not!

When Hershey Park built their rocket coaster, I heard that their maintenance staff met with CP's maintenance to get some tips and training. It wouldn't surprise me if Six Flags was also in communication with CP. This attitude that amusement parks are in an unfreindly war with each other only comes from enthusiasts.

Hiya Pete,

And boy you couldn't be more wrong. Word came down to everyone in maint at CP from Monty that NOBODY talks to Six Flags about the dragster but Monty himself. Period. This isn't an exact quote but he said something to the effect of 'let them figure it out for themselves'. Yes, many in management are sore because TTD was a joint project between CF and Intamin. The first example of this new hydraulic launch system was The Xcelerator out at Knotts in Cali. Now, whether Xcelerator was a 'trial run' of the technology with the intent specifically to build TTD based on how Xcelerator performed I can't say. Could be that Intamin pitched Xcel. to CF, showed that it was sound design, and CF came back to them and asked 'how big can we go with this?'. Either way CP maint. and Intamin have been working on and off (more on) for the past 2+ years to work through a couple inherent design flaws with TTD to make it more reliable and consistant. Not to mention the boatload of $$$ CP has spent in an attempt to hammer out these 'situations'. I think Intamin might have learned a valuable lesson from the whole Xcellerator/TTD project. You can't just build everything bigger and make it work the same. I tried to do some digging out at Knotts when I was there about Xcelerator - is it down alot, are there constantly problems with the launch system, do they snap cables etc. Ride ops didn't know a lot, but they did say the ride almost never goes down other than for routine maint. Now coming from a Ride op you gotta take it for what it's worth - she isn't a maint. person. But she had been with knotts since before Xcel opened.

TTD is a perfect example of why CP will probably never put in a complicated coaster like SFMM's Xflight. The simpler the design the more reliable and easier it is to keep it running. Dragster and WT give more maint. headaches than all the other coasters combined. From what I hear most of the bugs have been worked out of WT, but get used to the inconsistancies with TTD. I doubt they are going to go away anytime soon.

CPLurker

"Bring back the Penguins!"

Whatever dude... you're full of crap. You don't know how close that some of us, including Pete, are to people at the park. We aren't ones to run our mouths, but you can bet we'll speak up when our BS-detectors go off.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Well SFMM doesn't have an "Xflight" on their property, its called "X". "XFlight" is part of the old SFWoA now known as Geagua Lake. So yea, im feeling this BS we speak of. I highly doubt most people, including myself, have any idea whats going on. All's we can do is specualte. None of this is based on factual info.
*** Edited 6/1/2005 8:29:47 PM UTC by pyrocoasterkid***

What exactly is this MF Island? I have ridden it many times but am so busy looking at the pretty lake that I haven't noticed it being on an island? I'm lost, as usual, sorry.

Look down and you'll see it. Better yet, look at a park map. It's an island that MF travels over during it's course.

MrScott

Thanks again Mr. Scott, you are such a sweetie!!

Pitter patter, pitter, patter

That's MrScott's heart beating faster. :)

Sexy *wink*

Keep in mind folks that this is a Cedar Point board, not a romantic chat room ;)

^It's not? ;)