Mantis removal or transformation?

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
^ While I don't have the numbers, I do have common sense.

Good, then you can understand that you do not even know a fraction of the pertinent information as to how and why CP made the decision that they did.

- Wood coasters (Mine Ride's support structure) cost much more to maintain than steel coasters.

While this may be true in general it does not mean that it applies to Mine Ride and Mantis. Perhaps there are things about Mantis that we do not know, maybe that brake on the lift hill is there for some track stress reason that has caused extreme fatigue on certain parts of the track. Just one of many possibilities that neither you or I know the exact answers to.

- Though Mantis is an uncomfortable ride, B&M coasters are known for being relatively low maintenance machines. Again, I don't have the data, but there is no evidence to suggest that Mantis has been a nightmare as far as upkeep is concerned.

Yes B&M has built some very reliable and fun rides, that does not mean that they all have been so. Mantis did not meet expectations from the get go. Let's face it, Mantis which was built by B&M simply isn't a good coaster.

- Mine Ride is almost always a walk on and usually with one train operation. There is no doubt ridership is much lower on Mine Ride than Mantis- I don't need the data to know that.

And I have seen Mantis more often than not a walk on, sometimes with the middle seats closed and the remaining ones half full. It is obvious that CP has more of an issues with ridership numbers on Mantis than they do Mine Ride.

Mine Ride is usually running two trains and attracts plenty of families. I doubt it will be going anywhere anytime soon.

Pete said:
Me, I hate the loud roar.

Back in the 90s, I spent dozens of hours trimming rose bushes and pulling weeds under Raptor. I got real good at tuning it out. :)

I honestly don't think that bad of a ride. I rather enjoyed it but could only ride it once per visit because of the slow loading/unloading and the line.

Just to stir the pot a bit, and obviously we don't know if this is true or not, but someone in the original 2015 thread stated that he had talked to Jason McClure one day and Jason stated that Mantis was due for a paint job this year along with another coaster (can't remember, just remember Mantis sticking out). Could point to a conversion again, but instead of just receiving new paint, it changes colors.

djDaemon said:

coasterJay said:
How do you know it wont draw sizeable crowds? Lets see - Mantis sure wasn't!

Turns out the ride has annually drawn over 1.2 million riders on average, for its entire existence.

Who knew that walking by the queue was a piss poor way to analyze the ride's popularity?

;)

That is definitely some interesting anecdotal information you have provided, but is that number actually correct? I would call this analogous to my observation of no lines in Mantis queue during my 25 plus visits. Here is what I can be sure of though, of those so called 1.2 million riders (ouch), how many really enjoyed riding Mantis versus 1.5 million plus or so riders on TTD or MF that really enjoyed the ride?

I don't think Matt used anecdotal observations in his decision, and there are factors that even you DJ aren't aware of.

Walt said:

Pete said:
Me, I hate the loud roar.

Back in the 90s, I spent dozens of hours trimming rose bushes and pulling weeds under Raptor. I got real good at tuning it out. :)

I'm glad you never lost your hat!

Chelsie Paige said:
Interning with B&M I know more than the average person....

Chelsie Paige said:
Shoot the Rapids didn't have an anti roll back system until the 2014 season. ... - former STR crew member

So you work at STR and intern at B&M? Impressive!

^Zing!

coasterJay said:
Here is what I can be sure of though, of those so called 1.2 million riders (ouch), how many really enjoyed riding Mantis versus 1.5 million plus or so riders on TTD or MF that really enjoyed the ride?

Oh, please. For weeks you've been banging the drum that Mantis is unpopular, no one rides it, etc. Now that CP has provided actual data that indicates its popularity, now it's not that it's unpopular, but that it's unpleasant?

You should get a job in politics. ;)

coasterJay said:

djDaemon said:

coasterJay said:
How do you know it wont draw sizeable crowds? Lets see - Mantis sure wasn't!

Turns out the ride has annually drawn over 1.2 million riders on average, for its entire existence.

Who knew that walking by the queue was a piss poor way to analyze the ride's popularity?

;)

That is definitely some interesting anecdotal information you have provided, but is that number actually correct? I would call this analogous to my observation of no lines in Mantis queue during my 25 plus visits. Here is what I can be sure of though, of those so called 1.2 million riders (ouch), how many really enjoyed riding Mantis versus 1.5 million plus or so riders on TTD or MF that really enjoyed the ride?

I don't think Matt used anecdotal observations in his decision, and there are factors that even you DJ aren't aware of.

I waited 2.5 hours for Mantis just a few years ago. They were only running one train at the time to be fair though. The second train was being sent empty. Last time I was there, 45 minute wait with both trains. The line at Millennium was just at an hour.

When you take the 22 million total riders and divide it by the number of years it was operating, it averages out to 1.2 million a year. Then there was this as previously pointed out: http://rollercoasterfreak.com/Cedar_Point/Ridership.bmp

The length of a line is irrelevant. If there is a one train wait or a two hour wait, the ride can still only move a certain number of people per cycle.

djDaemon said:

Oh, please. For weeks you've been banging the drum that Mantis is unpopular, no one rides it, etc. Now that CP has provided actual data that indicates its popularity, now it's not that it's unpopular, but that it's unpleasant?

You should get a job in politics. ;)

First of all Cedar Fair never provides "actual data" to you or anyone that doesn't work for CF. Second, Unpopular/unpleasant would be the same thing as far as the GP is concerned. And yes its unpopular - they are removing/changing it aren't they?

I am in politics, how did you know? It seems you get riled up with every post I make, that's a politicians job. :)

coasterJay said:

That is definitely some interesting anecdotal information you have provided, but is that number actually correct? I would call this analogous to my observation of no lines in Mantis queue during my 25 plus visits. Here is what I can be sure of though, of those so called 1.2 million riders (ouch), how many really enjoyed riding Mantis versus 1.5 million plus or so riders on TTD or MF that really enjoyed the ride?

I don't think Matt used anecdotal observations in his decision, and there are factors that even you DJ aren't aware of.

Then you have people like me who walk by, see that there's less than a 1/4 hour wait time (which often means no line at all), and think "Well I'm here, why not?" and walk in.

Then of course afterward I remember the answer to that question which is why I don't get back on for another ride even though there's no line.

I hope mantis does not go to Dorney park. That park is the GOODWILL of amusement parks!
Stinger, demon drop, Possessed are all hand-me-down rides, just like items sent to goodwill stores. I am sure Jason McClure would agree.

Did anyone else notice this tweet? Notice the hashtag.

https://twitter.com/DorneyParkPR/status/506796058656391169

#DPstandsUPwithCP

The park's stated ridership data (albeit estimated, which is irrelevant to our purposes) is more "actual data" than your observations and opinion.

And unpleasant apparently is not synonymous with unpopular, considering the ride has given such a surprisingly large number of rides throughout the years.

CPboy77 said:
Did anyone else notice this tweet? Notice the hashtag.

https://twitter.com/DorneyParkPR/status/506796058656391169

#DPstandsUPwithCP

Its been mentioned about 20 times already

djDaemon said:
And unpleasant apparently is not synonymous with unpopular, considering the ride has given such a surprisingly large number of rides throughout the years.

Disagree, but no surprise there. A ride cant be called popular just by citing the amount of ridership it has had. I can guarantee that if you polled people getting off Mantis, most would say the ride was terrible. So popular in terms of ridership, isn't popular in terms of quality of ride.

But again let me remind you CF has decided to change the ride in some form, meaning its not popular with the GP, and that's really all that matters here.

JUnderhill said:
Yes B&M has built some very reliable and fun rides, that does not mean that they all have been so. Mantis did not meet expectations from the get go. Let's face it, Mantis which was built by B&M simply isn't a good coaster.

Interesting. In the former Mantis thread you said repeatedly that if Cedar Point was disappointed with Mantis something would've been done by now. Why the sudden change in opinion?

Chelsie Paige said:
Shoot the Rapids didn't have an anti roll back system until the 2014 season. ... - former STR crew member

Yes it did.