Lift type and location?

Ok - I'm sorry to drag this lively discussion back on topic - but I am going to the point this weekend (from Boston) to see the site for myself, and of course ride some kick ass coasters.

Has anyone identified footers that would support a drop size (hopefully large), or the footers that would support the lift engine or hydraulics? I would suspect these would be built first and be distinctive. (maybe that crazy area with zillions of round and square footers)

People have mentioned seeing "large" footers, so where are they in relation to other footers? We've all seen the curved footers in the water (sweet), but where are the straight line of footers for a lift, especially as it relates to the larger footers? Could that duel line of straight footers be a lift? (if it is, this coaster may not be that high)

Can't the footers help eliminate possibilities? For example, how do projects '07s footers compare to TTD or MF? Can we rule out the 500 footer yet? The space appears to be able to hold a large looper - but how large based on the footprint the footers now created - Magnum size? MF size? TTD size?

Any speculation?

I have read more than enough posts to know many on this site are engineers (speak up please).

I also don't know the park very well - been there 20 times over 20 years. After reading this thread, I now know at look for the wave swinger and antique cars. Can't wait to see the site first hand to draw my own conclusions - for those of you that have beaten me, tell me what to look for (please).

The biggest footers, and by big I mean large buried ones, are toward the middle of the site. The only distinct pattern to date is the turn between the Wave Swinger and Thunder Canyon.

Thanks Jeff - ok, so how large is the site - it sounds large, so could a compact 300+ footer looper or 4D fit within the site? Is the site and/or footer large enough for a 500 footer? (can we put this rumor to rest yet?)

Could the big footers in the center be for the first drop or a lift/hydrolic room? (best guess)

If it's the drop - from what direction is the height most likely coming from?
*** Edited 5/18/2006 2:21:27 AM UTC by Tom***

It is actually rather interesting to note how much of the foundation of several of the footers are much larger than the footer that is seen above ground, also that several of the footers above the ground are attatched to one large foundation block. Unfortunately I have not been able to spot one of the large foundation blocks completely uncovered, but there are some pretty nice sized ones.

Tom said: Thanks Jeff - ok, so how large is the site - it sounds large, so could a compact 300+ footer looper or 4D fit within the site? Is the site and/or footer large enough for a 500 footer? (can we put this rumor to rest yet?)

Could the big footers in the center be for the first drop or a lift/hydrolic room? (best guess)

If it's the drop - from what direction is the height most likely coming from?

The direction the drop is most likely coming from is up ;)

LMAO j2k95 - you got me.

I do find it interesting that the larger footers are in the middle of the site. Does this imply the height will be less than 200 feet?

Has anyone compared the footers for this project to TTD or MF - are they bigger, smaller or the same?

Can't wait for the weekend

It implies nothing more than an increased probability that those need to support higher forces. And higher forces could be the result of a multitude of situations, including (but certainly not limited to) a lift hill.

A size comparison of the footers is not necessarily indicative of the relative size of the ride.

Right, you can have a very larger footer (the underground part) and it really doesent mean that that part of the ride is tall, it could depend on soil conditions, it could be supporting more than one part of the ride ect...

Nothing can be deciphered by footers other than a posible layout. And even that is questionable depending on the quantity of them.

Same goes with track, You cant judge how tall or what type of coaster it will be based on the track. There are some smaller intamins out there that use box, triangular, and 2-rail track. So unless something is leaked or the ride is announced or construction goes vertical, everything other than manufacturer is anybody's guess.
*** Edited 5/18/2006 12:19:52 PM UTC by j2k95sunfire***

I think that anyone expecting something huge needs to adjust their expectations a bit.

By about how many feet should we adjust them, Jeff?

;)

That's the most telling thing he's said so far.

Jeff,
So you're saying it'll be bigger than huge??? Are we skipping 5 and 600 feet and going straight to 7? That is bigger than huge!! In fact that's ginormous freakin news.

;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) (I don't think I can put enough of these) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

you actually can tell something about the ride by looking at the footings. the larger the base (the underground part) the more pressure is going to be placed on it. if its relatively small, there isn't a lot of force being applied to that support. so, the top of the lift and the bottoms of valleys should have the largest. keep in mind that you can only tell this in the current stage since we can see the bases being poured. the above-ground part just relates to how big the support is - basically its a means of attaching the support to what's underground.

btw, can we get back on topic of lift type and location?? :)

OK, back on track. We know from Jeff the footers are Large, while another observed some appear to have the same configuration as the ones on TTD (12 bolts). Jeff also said those of us (like me) that are expecting huge need to adjust our expectation "a bit" (interesting choice of words), and the larger footers to date are in the center of the work area. Having the drop in the center certainly would keep people entertained while in line.

Since the track is Intamin, I think we're going to see another cable lift, which could be remote like El Toro. While I love launched rides, given the electric usage of LSM, and the issues with hydrolic lifts, I think these are highly less likely though still possible (obviously). We know that MF's lift is 45 degrees, the question I'd like to know is how steep can a cable lift go? Can you have a 60 or 70 degree cable lift?

How about a 70 degree lift with a 98 degree drop right in the center of the ride?

While I am still hoping for a height record being broken, the large footers may be needed to support a heavier train (possibly a prototype). Those new trains do look sweet.

I can not wait till this weekend, to check it out first hand. The newest pictures of the footers really do look HUGE (bigger than TTD as I recall). I also find Jeff's comment above VERY interesting.

Jeff, why didn't you stop at expectations and why did you throw in "a bit"? I've always thought given KK is 456, and since Magnum, CP has tried to crush the height record, going right to 600 feet (150 feet), is at least plausible, especially now that we know it's Intamin.

Conversly, Jeff also said enthusiasts could be disapointed, which I'll accept. However when you match CP and Intamin, I honestly can not image being disapointed no matter what it is. IMO, a disapointing coaster from CP/Intamin would be a first.

*** Edited 5/19/2006 11:10:49 AM UTC by Tom***

No matter what Cedar Point does, someone gets upset about it. So, saying some will be disappointed doesn't really say much. :)

I can't believe you're reading into my words that much. I'm not conspiring to make riddles here.

halltd said:
the larger the base (the underground part) the more pressure is going to be placed on it.

That's not entirely true. It has more to do with height than anything else. If you stick a pencil in a dime-sized eraser, will it fall over easily? Yes. If you stick it in a 3"x3" eraser, will it fall over easily? No.

footings aren't primarily meant to keep things from toppling over though. they're meant to keep things from sinking. (wouldn't want another magnum on our hands!) granted, if you have something very tall, like TTD or MF, you spread out the base of the structure. that's why the towers on MF look more like the eiffel tower than the box columns on magnum. that's also why TTD has the triangular shape. but, that's all above-ground structure. the footing is just there to transfer the weight of that structure evenly into the ground.

basically, if i use your analogy, i could put a secondary support on your pencil, and with the dime-sized eraser, it would stand up. but, if i put more load on the top of the pencil, one would sink into sand quicker than the other.

Forgive me for not being more clear, but my post was more in response the frequent posts about height and size.

This is getting freaking rediculous.

Due to CP's land being mostly sand, instead of digging deep with foundations, they must build wide.