Kinzel's "WORST DECISION EVER"

I first learned about the hydraulic launch concept back in late summer of 2001. I talked with several people about the technical side of S&S's Thrust Air. One of them told me about a rumor he heard about a hydraulic launch system being designed. Having been interested in hydraulics, pneumatics and other mechanical devices, I crunched a couple numbers to see if it could work. I thought it was a bit far fetched but possible. A few months later Xcelerator was announced. From that time on I've had a lot of conversations about hydraulic systems in general from all kinds of people. I met some guys from IAAPA that were interested in the technical side on their 2002 visit. I learned a lot from then and they learned some from me too. The more I learned the more I was able to learn more. A couple weeks before the ride opened I knew quite a bit on the background on hydraulics and their application to rides. During that time I picked up large amount on other applications such as rides applications of control systems.

I told you that story to give the background on this statement. In 2003 I had the background infromation to ask the right people the right questions. At that time I worked for Cedar Point for a while. I didn't really have a whole lot to do with the ride itself, it was just an extra interest I had. I've been in the hydraulic building while it was running as well as the electrical and control rooms. Other than that I won't go into details on working at the park. The fact that I worked there and knew a lot about the system beforehand gave me a ton of information on the ride. This happened with asking the right questions to the right people. I also picked up some details by playing with the panelview on the divide between launch and controls. It's actually nicely detailed with entire pages of ride states. There is also a multiline error feature that allows anyone to read all of the current error codes. They also come with a line of text that tells you what the problem is. Since that summer I've talked quite a bit to a lot of people on the ride.

Some people have a passion for various sports, music, cars, and other interests. They spend time talking and learning a lot about them as I do with my interests. Top Thrill Dragster so happens to be an object of mine.

As much as I had hoped Top Thrill Dragster would perform well, it hasn't ran as well as I want it to. I've dealt with hydraulics systems in the past and could be of at least some help. My background doesn't have the formal experience with hydraulic systems needed. Since they didn't need me I simply looked for someone else who did.

You guys quoted me a couple posts ago and thought I was silly for saying what I said. You guys have me all wrong! What I'm trying to say is we shouldn't always break the Height barrier every 3 years. Just because we did it with Dragster, doesn't mean we should do it more often. I would rather just keep riding Top Thrill Dragster for 5 more years before we look forward to 500 ft. I mean who else besides Six Flags Great Adventure has a Strata Coaster? You guys have me wrong, I love Top Thrill Dragster, but my opinion I don't want to see 500 ft just yet. Let Top Thrill Dragster have a couple good seasons!!

ForgottenEE said:Since they didn't need me I simply looked for someone else who did.

And who exactly is that?:)

Oh and about my question about the gearboxes, thanks for the answer but I'm having a bit of trouble finding any tan cylinders in all the white. They're not these...are they?(I dont think they are)

Sorry for my stupidness.:P

And if they're cylinders, why call them gearboxes!? :)

*** Edited 11/14/2005 5:49:59 AM UTC by TTD 120mph***

TTD 120mph,

Here is the best picture I could find of the gearboxes. It's the tan/offwhite portion of the piece that is being lowered into the hydraulics building.

"ForgottenEE",

Would I happen to be one of those people that you asked the right questions to at the right time? ;)

I have to agree dragster was a bad decison, not the worst, that honor goes to Disaster Transport.

Cedar Point has never had to post daily updates on whether a ride was going to be up and running daily. How embarassing. Raptor was put into operation in 1994, that year the park had a record season for attendance. Raptor had minimal downtime its first year and it was a new type of coaster (I think it was like the third one built... first new design other than Batman) therfore most of the patrons that wanted to experience it could, and left with a positive experience.

I went to CP the year Dragster opened. Was not able to ride due to mechanical issues. I live 8 plus hours away (Dover, DE) and was dissapointed, however as they say "if you paid XXX just to ride dragster, your crazy." Well, yes that is a main reason why I came to the park, after all I worked there for several years, and have rode the rides countless times and would like to experience a new ride. I went back this year during Halloweekends, again Dragster down AND Maxair down. Now, I begin to wonder, A. I have crappy luck and B. Cedar Point never used to have such mechanical issues. The "star" attractions should be up and running, after all that is what the park spent $$$ building and promoting and then for it to have so much downtime, it is an embarassmen snd dissapointment. To me, do I want to spend 40.00 in 06 to try to experience three "new" rides that I have not have had the chance to only to find a mechanical issue with them???

Anyway, enough... I do agree with Kinzel.. If you spend $$$ on a product you expect a ROI, and reliability..Dragster was a BAD decision.

I think it's both A and B. I was at the park 5 times this year and Dragster was closed the first trip due to weather conditions, ran wonderfully for the second 2 days, and the other two trips were during its mass downtime. maXair disappointed me in terms of downtime because on my first trip it ran off and on, the second two days it ran wonderfully and I got my first ride, the fourth trip I rode again, and the fifth trip was when it was down for the rest of the season.

Thanks PUE.
I feel smarter now.:)

Purdue University Engineer said:

"ForgottenEE",

Would I happen to be one of those people that you asked the right questions to at the right time? ;)

:)

This calls for a cheesy Electrical Engineering Joke:

A hydrogen atom lost its electron and went to the police station to file a missing electron report. He was questioned by the police: "Haven't you just misplaced it somewhere? Are you sure that your electron is really lost?"
"I'm positive." replied the atom.

OMG, I wish I didn't get that joke.

::cocks gun at head:: ;)

I guess I'm too much of a science purist to laugh at a joke that has a huge glaring error in it.

The Hydrogen particle is no longer an atom once it looses the electron...it's an ion. :-P

can you just tear down a 25 million$$ investment tho after just a few seasons? do they try and sell it or what?

You can't tear it down after three seasons, but my question is how many more years can this continue before either A: too much money is spent maintaining the ride; B: the ride starts giving the park a bad name because it's always down; C: the ride just becomes untrustworthy; D: another accident happens? I mean, bits of metal fly off and hurt riders...that's enough for me not to ride it again.

This ride is a thrill, but at a cost of $25 million!!!!!!! You don't spend $25 million for a layout like this. Horrible investment. Should have been spent on several family attractions, which would have increasd attendance. Lesson learned for the future.

*sigh* Some people are never happy.

By the time the downtime becomes enough of a problem to warrant tearing it down, newer more reliable technology will have emerged that can be retrofitted into the launch system.

Would you tear down your house if your attic were leaking?

net said:
I mean, bits of metal fly off and hurt riders...that's enough for me not to ride it again.

This ride is a thrill, but at a cost of $25 million!!!!!!! You don't spend $25 million for a layout like this. Horrible investment. Should have been spent on several family attractions, which would have increasd attendance. Lesson learned for the future.

Six Flags spent 35 million for the same layout. And if Dragster was not safe it would not run. Cedar Point has launched many trains since that happened.

The incident happened when the cable snapped. I believe the cable snapped 3 times in 2004. From what we know, the cable snapped a grand total of ZERO times in 2005. They fixed that problem.

See, now nobody would point that out besides me and you Gomez. How many people got frustrated at cable snaps when they were a problem last year? Dont you think that's a sign that says "See! I'm Top Thrill Dragster and I CAN be fixed!?"

Didn't they also use a different type of hydraulic oil this year? I remember CP saying they did.

Yeah, they use stronger more flexible cable and some kind of better oil. I have the article around here somewhere.

I don't think overall it was a bad decision, but there were such high expectations for it, and it didn't deliver.

I think it mainly had to do with bad timing as well. I'm sure they started planning TTD before 9-11,when the economy was in full swing. They felt that dragster would push them to the next tier, just as magnum had done many years ago. Then 9-11 hit and the economy slid. Tourism went down, and people were more intersted in other things. So when it did open there wasn't as much excitement and publicity if it would have open before 9-11. Then came the breakdowns, which hurt its publicity even more.

I think we are also heading towards a time where the coaster wars are over. Just compare the number of TV programs about roller coasters during the height of the coaster wars and now. There are hardly any shows on coasters anymore.Six flags has hit financial troubles, and paramount is trying to sell off their parks as well. Even though cedar fair has done well, the lack of competition has killed some of the interest.

When they were planning dragster, it was the best idea ever. It was well themed and was sure to extend cp's maketability and fame. But things happen, and turn great ideas into bad business decisions. It has attracted attention, but I'm sure dick was expecting a lot greater things.

9-11 had very little effect on CP. In fact, 2002 and 2003 both saw a rise in attendance. TTD wasn't ever expected to be another Magnum either. (that was MF's job)

TTD was brought in by popular demand. When MF opened, every person was in aww by the shreer speed of the entire ride. From there CP and Intamin developed a concept that would simulate drag racing that would give guest the ultimite speed sensation. The tower was just an added effect, TTD was built for the speed. Basically, CP delivered a ride that pushed the limits to areas no one thought was possible at the time, and every person loved the idea until June 2003 came around and every one found out the hard way that pushing the limit comes with "technical difficulties".

*** Edited 11/16/2005 11:15:06 PM UTC by Gomez***