Kinzel's "WORST DECISION EVER"

^Being a huge TTD fan, I even have to disagree. CP jumped the gun to soon to reach 400 feet. They took the risk though and a great ride with a ton of downtime came out of it.

beccaraptor said:
I have a question... I couldn't listen to the podcast so did they ever say what size of cotton candy they were offering for 25 cents? Would it would be a full size cotton candy like at other parks or only be the size of a baseball? Spun on a popsicle stick? lol!

Wrong topic, but no they didn't say anything about size. Knowing CP and other amusement parks, it's not going to be a normal size. Cotton candy that cost the same as a gum ball is a great deal every way you look at it.

I'm happy Kinzel admitted this. It's one thing to make a mistake, but at a cost of $25 million, this is a disaster. They simply jumped too soon to get the highest coaster again. Don't get me wrong, TTD is a great rush, but to pay $25 million for this layout, and then have the problems it has had, is just rediculous. I wouldn't be surprised to see this ride torn down in the future if the problems continue.

I would.

I dunno about the size of the engine not having anything to do with down time. If the engine was say, twice as big (hypothetically), wouldn't there be ALOT less resistance, therefore giving it an easier job? For instance, if TTD's engine was being used for a 200 footer, wouldn't it work ALOT better? I think it would. You can pull a muscle lifting a 200 pound weight, but you could lift a 5 pound weight as many times as you wanted and wouldn't break a sweat. Maybe its the same idea, maybe its not, I dunno.

Gomez said:
TTD's launch system is very reliable. How many other system have so much power to launch a 6 ton train up to 120mph and do that almost every 60 seconds? Sure it's not reliable compared to other roller coasters, but that motor has a big job to do.

So, what the you're saying is...if I have a 27" tv that works everytime I start it up, but decide "hey!, I want a 60-inch plasma wide screen", I should be happy that my TV turns on once per week because the electronics inside have a bigger job to do? Sounds real reliable to me.

Race for the fry- one thing to remember is no matter what the size the engine is the launch run is only 4 to 5 seconds long. As far as I know Dragster doesnt even use all the horse power that it has during a launch. But i do understand what you are saying.

The main cables, gearbox, motor, drum and even the catch car are affected by shock loading. This is due to the cable's elasticity. Have you ever notice how much the tensioner pulley falls back when the train launches? Double that and you have how much the cable stretches before the train breaks over static friction. The pulley motion is the after affects of the drum pulling the main ropes and paying out the return rope. The hydraulic motor setup gets moving fairly quickly during that period. The catch car and train sit there for that duration. When the force of the cable finally is able to break over static friction, the train starts to move and the pulley bounces back slightly. What you can't see is how violent the shock loading is. It was actually worse in 2003 when the catch car would get so hot it would melt and sink slightly into the nylon lining.

Originally the hydraulics problem was major cavitation problems. This caused tiny pieces of steel and bronze that make up the pumps and motors to be released into the oil. The servo valves that open up to feed oil to the motors got these pieces drilled into it's moving parts. The results were seized valves. While the main cause of cavitation was reduced by changing the catch car reversal, it continued to be a problem. This year they finally got that under decent control.

The shock loading did damage the drum this summer. Later in the season, a gearset finally gave way too. These parts finally met their limit in terms of abuse. Your talking parts that are designed to last at least 20 or 30 seasons, but they failed before 3. Reducing the shock loading would also reduce the intensity of the initial launch.

ForgottenEE,

What impact has felt by the Maintenance group by the addition of Dragster? Does the ride draw so much attention that other rides have suffered?

MrScott

I wouldn't be surprised to see this ride torn down in the future if the problems continue.

Okay... I don't think CP is going to destroy a $25M investment because a part of it doesn't work. You have to remember that there is a lot more to the ride (in terms of cost) beyond the launch system. Sure, it makes up a good chunk, but the track and supports themselves cost a good amount as well. Why would they PAY to have their investment destroyed, when they can just replace a PART of it instead?

Now, if the problems persisted for another 10 years, and hydraulic technology stopped advancing, then maybe they would consider tearing it down. But that is a BIG "if".

MrScott,

I cannot speak for the Maintenance department. I do know a couple things about them. The members have gotten many opportunities to work overtime with Top Thrill Dragster. From my perspective, they tend not to like rides that require frequent visits. Demon Drop and Top Thrill Dragster are both horrible for that. Many other rides in the park have bad periods where they go down a lot. Maintenance simply has to deal with these situations as they arise. I don't know exactly how many guys are on duty at a given time, but there is a lot of them. From what I've seen, their job is fairly laid back much of the time. When things go to hell, they work much harder.

As for other rides suffering because of Top Thrill Dragster, it's hard to say. All safety checks must be preformed and the ride signed off. If that does not happen then the ride cannot be run. If a ride goes down for a mechanical reason then the ride will not be restarted untill maintenance gives approval. When many rides go down and TTD requires a lot of labor in order to return to operation then the workers will split up. Some can be done with one guy. Usually if the fix has safety issues involved, several guys will be dispatched. For instance two guys would replace a wheel on Millennium Force to speed up the process and make sure they don't forget the slip ring or something else. If a ride goes down when they have everyone available at Top Thrill Dragtster then they probably will send however many workers needed to fix the problem. When they are done then they will had right back over to Top Thrill Dragster to help finish up. If safety isn't a concern then the ride may get put on hold for a while. For instance, a problem with a train that can be transfered off isn't much of a problem.

If Top Thrill Dragster requires more attention than can be given, then the opportunity will go out for overtime.

ForgottenEE,

From your expierence, how do you think Dragster will operate in 2006 and beyond? Is this just the way it's gonna be?

MrScott

In alot of ways forgottenEE is correct, depending on what we go down for it could take nobody like a reset and go, or if I remember from 2004 it took like 6 guys to replace the cable. Most of the time it is 1 or two person job to fix most problems with the ride.

As for 2006 I think that it will be Dragster's best year yet. The park has learned alot about the ride and i think that the older the ride gets the better it will get. Downtime will be less because they are learning better and quicker ways to fix problems.

I know ForgottenEE is correct in the things he says. That's why I asked if Dragster will continue to operate in the future the way it does now.

2005 was a good year for TTD. Just not when I was there (May & Sept).

MrScott

I guess Top Thrill Dragster simply reminds me of FORD.

"Fix or Repair Daily"
"Found on Road Dead"
"First On Repair Dolly"
Or even
"Driver Returns on Foot"

To be honest, if you drive your car with the petal glued to te metall then your drivetrain won't last very long at all. I seen a video of a brand new Ferrari that was driven very hard last a fraction of a mile before it's engine blew up.

Top Thrill Dragster has a large number of parts and operates them in harsh conditions. There is room for improvement, but the ride can only operate so well with the current setup. I think I estimated that the best TTD could do was 85% uptime about a year ago. From whatever the exact value that may be, it can only get worse.

arms_down said:
In alot of ways forgottenEE is correct

I'd actually be entertained if you point out what statements of mine are erroneous. As much as I know about the ride, I don't know everything.

MrScott said:
2005 was a good year for TTD. Just not when I was there (May & Sept).

That's the nicest thing you said about TTD in a long time. :)

I know, I know, I tend to be a Dragster basher. Being in the station when it goes down tends to do that to ya. Not to mention multiple visits to the park when it was down. I never got a chance to ride it this year, because of it's downtime.

Let's just hope this lemon makes lemonade next year... ;)

MrScott

And hope they keep an extra gearbox on hand for next time?

There really isn't a way to see what condition they are in without taking the whole thing off. Motors and hoses included. I'm suprised (sarcastically) that Maintenance didn't even look at the other gearbox to see what condition it was in. Heck, they had a whole month of weekends...

So exactly what do the gearboxes look like?

Can it be seen in this picture?

*** Edited 11/13/2005 5:33:48 PM UTC by TTD 120mph***

It's the tan cylinder between the drum and the motors. The motors are red and have several hoses to each. Both gearboxes can be seen from that photo.

ForgottenEE, just how do you know so much about this ride?

MrScott