Gas at $3.25,will affect attendance

JuggaLotus said:
^^ - or would the price of gas go up to compensate the decrease in demand? The point of dropping the price of a product is to stimulate demand by making the product more financially appealing.

That's not how supply and demand works. When demand goes down, so does the price.

bholcomb said:
I know I'm late to this discussion, but there are a lot of valid reasons to have big cars. What do you expect to have happen Jeff? The government just tell everyone they can't drive a hummer because its big and bad? What about those that are legitimately using big SUV's?

I don't expect the government to do anything other than close some of the existing loopholes (like the classification of Escalades and Hummers as business vehicles). Ratifying Kyoto with the rest of the world would be nice. Raising fuel economy standards now would certainly be less detrimental to the economy than the long-range issues we're facing too. But beyond that, I don't think it's a government issue as much as it is a cultural issue. And what kills me is that Conan the Republican of all people is one of the few people in government making a case legislatively and culturally.

Walt said:
Using a straight percentage isn't a fair way to measure the usefulness... The SUV gets the grief, but should we feel guilty for anything other than a 4-cylinder?

Well, with Pete's example, yes, it is a fair measure. I've never had an SUV, and short of having a child, our lives aren't all that different, and I've been getting along fine. If I did have a child, I see no reason why I'd need a bigger car for someone smaller than me. I even live in the secondary snow belt and work in the worst of the primary snow belt.

Should you feel guilty? I don't care what people feel, I just want them to think about the bigger context. I'm not a tree-hugger because it's fashionable or it makes me feel good, I just have a genuine concern based on science and economics that we're in serious trouble, especially in this country. I do my small part when I can in terms of energy savings, but it takes everyone's involvement to make the bigger difference.

Right now we're importing like 60% of our oil (and by the way, Alaska's wildlife reserve, 20 years from now, would only reduce that by 3%). Imagine if we were able to reduce our consumption by 20%, an easy target to hit if we were able to up the average fuel economy. I think right now it's in the mid-20 mpg range. Imagine if we got to 30 mpg. The impact would be huge, and it would drive prices down because of substantial reduction in demand.

Passing it on, tell your friends

NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Don't pump gas on MAY 15th

In April 1997, there was a "gas out" conducted nationwide in protest of gas prices. Gasoline prices dropped 30 cents a gallon overnight.

On May 15th 2007, all internet users are to not go to a gas station in protest of high gas prices. Gas is now over $3.00 a gallon in most places.

There are 73,000,000+ American members currently on the internet network, and the average car takes about 30 to 50 dollars to fill up.

If all users did not go to the pump on the 15th, it would take $2,292,000,000.00 (that's almost 3 BILLION) out of the oil companies pockets for just one

day, so please do not go to the gas station on May 15th and lets try to put a dent in the Middle Eastern oil industry for at least one day.

If you agree (which I cant see why you wouldn't) resend this to all your contact list. With it saying, ''Don't pump gas on May 15th"

Some people will let gas prices effect their travel but nothing will stop me not even greedy gas companies.

Jeff said:
I've been getting along fine.

I'm sure I could get along as well. I could also get along without a house if I moved to an apartment. But there's more to the equation than simply what I can get by with.

The difference in fuel efficiency between the Mercury Grand Marquis, Chrysler 300, and Chevrolet Malibu Maxx, and the Ford Explorer is, on average, about 4 or 5 mpg. But the soccer mom stereotype argument says only the owner of the Explorer is the bad guy.

I just have a genuine concern based on science and economics that we're in serious trouble ... Imagine if we were able to reduce our consumption by 20%

I'm all about the economy. I don't complain about gas prices because I understand it's market driven. I understand the problem we're facing. The answer isn't to reduce use of oil-based fuel. The answer is to eliminate it. Even from a capitalistic pig viewpoint, it's good business! I don't think the auto makers are doing enough to come up with new solutions.

When I bought my truck three years ago, I took a lot of factors into consideration. When all was said and done, that SUV gave me what I felt was the right balance. We'll probably be buying another vehicle to replace my wife's this year. Again, I'll take a lot of factors into consideration. And because there are different factors involved, I'd be shocked if I ended up with a second SUV. Although, I'm sure my neighbors would be really impressed if I had two SUV's in the driveway. :)

coasterxtreme72 said:
NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Even if were to possible to get everyone on the same page, it simply wouldn't work. Unless you actually drive less, you'll buy the same amount as normal, despite what day you buy it. The gas boycott has even reached urban legend status.

Yes, the "boycott" is the most asinine and ineffective idea I've ever heard of.

Those cars you're talking about Walt are all enormous gas hogs. Civics, Corollas and the like blow those cars out of the water in terms of fuel economy. They're great cars that last forever. And even those are big cars by foreign standards.

The price elasticity for gasoline in the short run is inelastic. This means that it takes a large change in price to make a little change in demand. In time the automakers will curve to more efficient vehicles making the curve more elastic.

The big three is trying not to go in the fuel efficient direction simply because it is more profitable to sell larger SUV's, minivans, and pickups. Their idea of an option is LCD screens or more towing capacity than most drivers will ever use.

The oil companies simply don't control the market forces. It just so happens that the market operates in their favor.

One day drives won't work because the station's gas tanks can easily hold the extra fuel untill a few days later when those involved refill. If most drivers shave off 1 gallon's worth of driving in a month, the inelastic demand curve will bite back hard. It will quickly fill up all of the gasoline storage tanks back to the refineries, crude oil will get backed up out to the huge tankers at sea. To prevent this, the traders will no longer buy and sell crude for inflated prices therefore the price of oil will drop. All available oil will be strongly demanded at lower price with backups of oil and gasoline therefore no place to store the stock. As a result, this means that gasoline prices will have to be reduced to sell more.

The opposite happens and drives the price up. The big difference is that it seems to happen much faster. If the price goes down 10 cents, and they sell 1 extra gallon to everyone this depletes the stockpile of gasoline, then crude. The prices have to go up to prevent the stock of fuel from depleting.

Want a bigger (another) SUV and lower gasoline prices? Not going to happen. If prices go down and demand stays the same or goes up, then gas stations will go dry and we will have a repeat of the 70's.

$2.79 in Austin, Texas. Thought I might add.'

Glad I bought my Germany plane tickets before all the prices went up.

Jeff said:

That's not how supply and demand works. When demand goes down, so does the price.

I'm well aware of that. But what happens when there is collusion amongst all entities involved in providing a particular product to market? Gas prices don't jump at every gas station in an area within 30 minutes of each other and stay within 2 cents of each other because the market is at work.

Reasons I love my SUV:

First, it's just a Chevy Blazer. Not a fancy model with bells & whistles, it's just a truck really. Rides like a truck, but seats us all on the road trip to CP comfortably, with room for stuff for baseball season in the back. (Stuff that would never all fit in your basic truck)

Second, my profession requires I have reliable transportation through any type of weather. I c/n call off just because I can't make it through some tough Ohio snow days. (Also, as a skier, it gets me to the slopes when the conditions are great for skiing, but bad for driving)

Third, as stated before we needed to haul a work trailer, & killed 2 birds with one stone (actually I hate that phrase because I'm a animal lover) by filling the above needs as well. A 4-cylinder obviously wouldn't cut it hauling for long before burning out the motor.

Now I don't give a rats butt about what the neighbors think. Status means nothing to me. So I do actually agree that many people really d/n have as much need for their SUV's as I feel I do, so as a tree hugger myself, I do see the environmental issue. I guess what I'm saying is: yes, it's not that good on gas, but I feel very justified in owning one, & no, I don't think as many people that have them should but some may have perfectly good reasons as well.

coasterxtreme72 said:

There are 73,000,000+ American members currently on the internet network, and the average car takes about 30 to 50 dollars to fill up.

If all users did not go to the pump on the 15th, it would take $2,292,000,000.00 (that's almost 3 BILLION) out of the oil companies pockets for just one day.

And how much of that are you taking out of the stockholders pockets ie. MINE? Not to mention all the employees of these compaines and their suppliers/subsidiaries?

If you want to get some of your money gas money back, buy stock in the oil & gas companies. DIVIDENDS are a marvelous thing.

Also, I do not understand the socialist/anti-capitalist mentalitiy of attacking companies that make a good profit - record-breaking or not. Would we be demanding windfall taxes, investigations, etc. if Harley Davidson, Kroger, Motorola, JCPenney, etc. were having record profits?

Gasoline is a commodity and its price is driven by three primary things: supply, demand and speculation. Two of the underlying things for the current upswing in prices are the lack of refining capacity (there is plenty of crude oil, just not enough places to convert it to gasoline) and the switch over to all the "summer blends" for different areas of the country.

I could go on and on. But I'll stop for now.

All that being said, the higher prices for gas WILL NOT/COULD NOT keep me from driving the 425+ miles to the greatest place in the world!

Bill

http://www.gmc.com/yukonhybrid/index.jsp

There you go Walt. If you need something big. Looking at 30 miles to the gallon at least in that bad boy. Or check out the Outlook from Saturn. It's 26 mpg and holds 8 with a naturally aspirated engine.

It makes no sense to make a small hybrid car and sing about all the great things it does for the world. When it would take 10 of them to negate what one full size SUV does to the environment. Come up with alternatives for the larger vehicles first.

Also, there is a 9mpg difference between the Malibu Maxx and the Ford Explorer. *** Edited 5/5/2007 10:41:03 PM UTC by Coastern3rd***

I'm sure I'll get attacked for saying this, but I've personally never been in an SUV that is as roomy as a mid or full sized car. Sure the SUV may have an extra bench in the back (depending on the model) to hold more people, but the space is always much more cramped than a decent sized car.

I also don't really buy the need for 4 wheel drive to get though snow when a vehicle with front wheel drive can do nearly as good of a job. As a matter of fact, my front wheel drive Buick does much better in the snow than my parents' all wheel drive mini-van.

So I can see a larger vehicle if you consistently have to haul around 5-7 people, but for the average family of 4, even if they have full grown kids, there's really no good reason not to have a mid or full sized car.

The whole May 15th thing is funny. My mom told me about it and I told her it wasn't going to work. If people need to go somewhere and need gas, they'll go no matter what. I'm not going to fill up because I know I wont need to. So I'm a participant by default.:)

Just because you only SEE 2 kids, doesn't mean they don't have older children, too.

While that's true for some, many of the families I have in mind as I write this do only have two children. An example of what I mean: my parents' next door neighbors sold the wife's little car and bought a brand new SUV when she became pregnant the second time. So now she has an SUV that carries a one year old and a two year old. And no, while they are nice people, they don't do any heavy hauling.

And as far as having older SUV's, some of you are not following my point. When I talk about status symbols, I'm talking about those who always HAVE to have the biggest, newest, and best. Think about it, I'm sure you can think of at least on person you know who fits this description.

And sorry Walt, I don't acually drive a Civic...it's a Jetta. Nice try, though. :)

^^^ I would never attack you Chris; we'll just have to disagree. I really think my Blazer is roomier & better in the snow with 4 wheel drive than your front wheel only would be (as well as just being up higher & able to make it through unplowed roads), but I respect your opinion :)

Coastern3rd said:
Also, there is a 9mpg difference between the Malibu Maxx and the Ford Explorer.

Malibu Maxx

Ford Explorer

Ralph Wiggum said:
I'm sure I'll get attacked for saying this, but I've personally never been in an SUV that is as roomy as a mid or full sized car.

That is very true. The front seat is pretty good, but the backseat legroom leaves a lot to be desired.

I also don't really buy the need for 4 wheel drive to get though snow when a vehicle with front wheel drive can do nearly as good of a job.

I didn't buy the vehicle because of winter travel, but it ended up being a plus. Having an SUV doesn't give you super powers in the snow, so, just like with any other vehicle, you can't be stupid. But the truck does give me better handling and traction than any other vehicle I've had.

marvina1216 said:
And sorry Walt, I don't acually drive a Civic...it's a Jetta. Nice try, though. :)

Uh, OK?

I have a problem with cars because I happen to be a tall person, specifically a tall torso person. Currently I have a 2005 Dodge Caravan, and even in that my head just touches the roof. Every car I have ever tried has made me felt like a contortionist (and risk straining my back, which I have done before doing this) when I try to get into and out of the car, they simply are too low to the ground and once I get in, the steering wheel is too low and I have to crouch over the wheel so that my head doesn't push up into the ceiling and so that I can see out the windshield.

Also, you can not believe how handy that room can be. In addition to being able to carry 7 people (my friends love me) it can carry a whole lot of cargo and odd shaped objects. I recently had to fix my futon frame (one of the boards cracked) and I was able fit the board in my car, with no bungee cords, no open trunks and no worries.

I don't understand the nation's love affair with the Hummer, but I do know that I will probably never own something smaller then a Jeep because of my dimensions. My minivan will be with me for a while, but someday in the future I imagine myself buying a mid size SUV like a Blazer, however if I have the means I would definitely look into (and probably buy) a Hybrid.

You guys keep coming up with exceptions, but I drive to work every day, surrounded by SUV's with one person in them, five days a week.

And my 6'1" best friend fits just fine in my Corolla.

So many factors...

When my wife and I got married, she was driving a Civic coupe (35mpg) and I was driving a Focus hatchback (34mpg). The gas savings were great and helped us save money in our first year of marriage. We traded in the Civic on an '04 Mustang (22-ish mpg). This was our first reward to ourselves as we became a little more stable. Six months later we traded in the Focus on an '03 Mazda Tribute (21mpg). Why? We wanted to be able to travel - with two or three of our adult sized friends with us. The Focus had a great backseat for a car that size, but it certainly didn't give us the room for the kinds of road trips we like. Last year, we upgraded to an '06 Mustang (24mpg) and an '06 Explorer (21mpg) as we became even more financially stable. Do gas prices cause us to alter our budget when they go abouce $3.20? Sure. But, if we still had the Focus and the Civic, our scheduled gas budget would obviously be much lower, so the $3.20 gas prices would hurt then, too.
Yeah, I drive the Explorer daily, usually by myself through the week. But I also haul drums. And lights. And set pieces. If you see us on the weekends, there's 4 or 5 of us in there, plus stuff for working on the house or garage sale finds. We haven't cancelled road trips this summer. We've just had to be smart with our budget. It's not that hard, really. *** Edited 5/6/2007 2:30:16 AM UTC by PREMiERdrum***

Gas prices dont affect me any. I get very good gas. I can go 2 and from Cedar Point on the same fill up as long as i fill up the day of. And i live in Columbus, Ohio.