Disappearing 80's

Titandwedebil said:
You really must love Mine Ride a lot to ignore everything I say...

Or, you know, maybe your points aren't all that compelling. :)

^I think the point is, that space could be utilized if CCMR is gone.

Right, that's what I was getting at with the outlines.

What does that even mean? CCMR's location is already utilized. By CCMR. Putting something else there wouldn't necessarily utilize it any better or worse. It would just utilize it differently.

Can you honestly tell me that Mine Ride stayed because it was better than DT and Wildcat?

You're vastly oversimplifying the issue. There are a myriad of factors that determine the value of any particular attraction. And you have access to none of that data.

The only way Mine Ride could last is if it was an outstanding Transition coaster...

Again, what does that even mean? And who determines what makes an "outstanding transition coaster"? Is there some agency? A body of elected officials? A quorum?

...popular enough...

So, what has been CCMR's ridership in recent years, especially since the installation of Skyhawk and Maverick? And what is the costs-per-rider, when you factor in the total cost of ownership? And what cost-per-rider value does CF use as a benchmark for CCMR?

djDaemon said:

^I think the point is, that space could be utilized if CCMR is gone.

Right, that's what I was getting at with the outlines.

What does that even mean? CCMR's location is already utilized. By CCMR. Putting something else there wouldn't necessarily utilize it any better or worse. It would just utilize it differently.

I believe what he's getting at, is there is a section on Millennium Island behind CCMR which is not utilized for any rides right now, and due to the locations of other rides, would be difficult to utilize on it's own right now.

However, replace CCMR, and you'd have access to this area. So, even though the current area occupied by CCMR is relatively small, when you include "dead space" near CCMR, the available land is closer to that occupied by either Maverick or Mean Streak.

Yeah, those last 10 trees really do need to go. ;)

But really, the amount of space available on the island is almost negligible, in terms of being useful for a coaster. I'm sure they could fit a few footers on the island, but StR took up nearly all usable space, and DA took up the rest.

And actually, if access to the island were desired, there are others ways to get there that don't necessitate the removal of CCMR. IF P&D were moved elsewhere on the property (or better yet, off-Point), a coaster could have its station there, and use the island for a turnaround.

Coaster Boi said:
^Thank God for smart people!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

This coming from someone who's still in middle school. Again to quote Jeff from another thread, when does school start again?

And I don't love CCMR. It just amazes me how some of you are so concerned about coaster counts, but in the same breath want to destroy something and plop something else in it's place. Simple math tells me that this doesn't increase your coaster count.

I know you ripped those smileys out the same place you got your $1.5 million number to paint TTD, so maybe you should think about jamming them back up there.

@dJDaemon - I'm going to sympathize with you a bit when I say that assuming you do enjoy/don't mind Mine Ride, that it's probably annoying to hear me bitching about how it needs to go and be replaced by something better.

Granted I'd probably do the same if someone was talking about DT or WildCat that way (prior to us knowing they'd be removed), so I completely understand what you're saying.

I can't lay out facts about the coaster, I can't give you the data that proves that Mine Ride has enough space to house a better transition coaster. What I'm acting on is based other things, such as:

1) My Memory of the coaster experience as a child, and of present day.
2) My Observations of its low attendance every time I visit the park.
3) My Observations of its increasing age.
4) My Observations of the removal of other rides, which had to do with not only space, but of course the question of whether the new coaster would be a better investment of that space.
5) My realization that the park is nearly out of room for coaster space without having to remove something first.
6) My inherent comparing of Mine Ride and other coasters
7) The loss of fellow Transition coasters, creating a higher focus on quality now that quantity has been diminished.
8) The dislike for roughness while riding rides, which most people (I assume) do not enjoy.

My next comment is going to be harsh, but I can guarantee you that it is the truth when it comes to my opinion. I've been to 6 cedar fair parks, and 4 six flags parks over my life time. I've ridden, I'd say, all of the coasters in each of those parks at the time (including the transition coasters). I've experienced great coasters, as well as ones that were not so great (bumpiness, dull experience, short ride time, etc.) I can say, without a doubt, that Mine Ride is, in my mind, one of the top three worst coasters that I've ever ridden.

It's a horrible thing to want to get rid of a ride just because you don't like it, I understand that. Based on what I see, what I feel, and my observations, I'm confident that there are many others who do not enjoy this ride either.

The fact is, it takes up space. I know everyone here knows that CP does not intend on letting time engulf the park, it's always aiming on improving the park in any way that it can. If CP was anywhere but a peninsula, I would never have brought up taking Mine Ride down. As much as I hate it, it wouldn't be necessary to take it out if that was the case, but it's not the case.

To assume Mine Ride is safe is a bit ignorant. Who would have ever thought Wildcat would be gone, up until Luminosity was announced?

I don't know if CP wants to focus on the quality of its Transition coasters, I really don't. If they came up with a new transition coaster, that they felt would generate more crowds, more hype, more enjoyment, and more thrills for the younger audience AND the older audience alike (and I stress this because it's one thing to have transition coasters be fun for kids, but a whole new realm to do the same for teens and adults); where do you see them wanting to put it? In the wooded mountain area next to Millenium?

It's not uncommon to want to replace an old ride with low ridership and questionable quality with one that would be a great deal better.

I don't care about Mine Ride, I don't. I care about CP though, and replacing Mine Ride is just one of many options to better the experience for kids who aren't yet tall enough or brave enough for the big rides. No one can deny the importance of transition rides, no one. It's key to some kids in getting them that first impression of coasters. Thank god we have Iron Dragon, but that and Mine Ride is really it now. My thoughts are to make that grouping of transition rides the best they can be, and I feel so strongly that Mine Ride is just not there in terms of today's standards go.

If CP wanted to build a roller coaster on top of CCMR without removing it, they could. Has anyone ever been to Morey's Piers in Wildwood, NJ? Heck, they could have probably kept DT and build Gatekeeper on top of it if they wanted to.

djDaemon said:
But really, the amount of space available on the island is almost negligible, in terms of being useful for a coaster. I'm sure they could fit a few footers on the island, but StR took up nearly all usable space, and DA took up the rest.

Well in 5-10 years, DA won't be there so they could use the space after its removed.

Titandwedebil said:
...assuming you do enjoy...

Nah, not really. It's a neat coaster, but I probably don't even ride it once a season. I have no emotional attachment to the ride.

The rest of your response was really a long-winded (though thoughtful) way to say that you don't like the ride, and that it should be removed. Fine, cool. That's your opinion, and I take no issue with that.

I'm just pointing out that your dislike of the ride is completely meaningless in terms of whether or not it should be removed. We don't have the data necessary to make that judgement.

However, we do have ridership numbers from as recent as 2008, and those numbers indicate CCMR gave about the same number of rides as Mantis, Wicked Twister, Power Tower, Mean Streak, and Blue Streak. And CCMR gave more rides than Maxair and Skyhawk in 2008.

It's worth pointing out that CCMR gave about the same number of rides as MS. It's not unreasonable to assume the cost to maintain CCMR is lower than the cost to maintain MS. As such, the cost/rider for CCMR is presumably lower than it is for MS.

So really, to suggest that your dislike of the ride is mirrored by a large segment of the population is simply not supported by this data. Plenty of people like the ride.

This is going to sound harsh, DJ, but over the past 5 years I have purchased AND defeated each Roller Coaster Tycoon game there is. I can assure you my guests do NOT like Mine Ride in any of my Cedar Point recreations. In my research, I even tested guests with 90% satisfaction who prefer intense rides, and the results were still the same. In fact, most kids even say "That RIde looks too intense for me to ride".!!!

Trust me, it's going.

Love it!

Clearly you've never played RCT3, Kevin. Those idiot peeps will ride anything. Even the jerky, rough CCMR!

;)

However, we do have ridership numbers from as recent as 2008, and those numbers indicate CCMR gave about the same number of rides as Mantis, Wicked Twister, Power Tower, Mean Streak, and Blue Streak. And CCMR gave more rides than Maxair and Skyhawk in 2008.

It's worth pointing out that CCMR gave about the same number of rides as MS. It's not unreasonable to assume the cost to maintain CCMR is lower than the cost to maintain MS. As such, the cost/rider for CCMR is presumably lower than it is for MS.

So really, to suggest that your dislike of the ride is mirrored by a large segment of the population is simply not supported by this data. Plenty of people like the ride.

Plenty of people liked DT, and even more will like the new coaster, am I right? They updated, this doesn't mean no one liked DT, but it was done in the hopes that even more people will like the new ride.

This argument is extremely exhausting. As witty as you guys are, the vibes I get from some of you is that you see Mine Ride as some sort of safe haven and crown jewel of the park that cannot and will not be removed for something better?

This thread is about disappearing 80's, do none of you agree that Mine Ride is likely one of the next to go?

Mine Ride was built in the 60's, so no. ;)

I think you're overstating my position. I wouldn't be terribly disappointed to see CCMR go, but at the same time, I see no logical reason why it should. It's not unpopular, fills a niche that most parks have, and seems to be in pretty good shape, mechanically speaking.

I get that you don't like it, and would prefer something else there. But that alone is not a logical argument for replacing it.

I see no logical reason why it should go. It's not unpopular, fills a niche that most parks have, and seems to be in pretty good shape, mechanically speaking.

Logic has almost everything to do with it.

DT and Wildcat were not unpopular, they were in pretty good shape (mechanically) and for Wildcat especially, it filled a niche.

What makes Mine ride any different? Let's say Cedar Point came up with a new transition coaster that they felt would be innovative and exciting and popular and would make kids force their parents to take them to CP to ride it (like how I did with some of the rides I used to love). They think, hey, how neat would it be to use the mining theme and have it go through mining tunnels and over the water and all that good stuff. And hey, as a perk, let's make it smooth for everyone.

Or, let's put a coaster where the bumper cars are at next to raptor.

My point is, it's a possibility.

We don't have free space, so we're forced to update. That's all it is, updating. Updating doesnt mean that no one liked the old ride, it's a mindset that the new ride will be better and attract more people. The more people who enjoy the ride the better.

I don't see Mine Ride as a demon that needs to be burned, I see it as a potential to be something much better. The same goes for people who want Mean Streak gone for something they feel would attract more people and a more positive response. THey don't have an excel document for mean streak, but they do have their observations and their wits about how people perceive the ride, that's the same situation for Mine Ride.

Leave CCMR and make the next coaster (after Alt.Winged.CP) go out over the lake. Pouring footers would be rough though.

I would love a coaster that went over the lake. If that was all out possible, I'd shut up about updating and root for the water coaster idea.

Nice theme for a transition coaster too, maybe pirate themed with water guns, floating pirate ships, and all sorts of neat caves to fly through.

Titandwedebil said:
I would love a coaster that went over the lake. If that was all out possible, I'd shut up about updating and root for the water coaster idea.

Nice theme for a transition coaster too, maybe pirate themed with water guns, floating pirate ships, and all sorts of neat caves to fly through.

For the pirate ships, they should put Ocean Motion on floats and move it out over the lake. Ride would be 10x's as fun riding when Lake Erie has whitecap waves on it. Plus that would open that space for a Surfrider :D

Titandwedebil said:
We don't have free space...

Space is less of a limiting reagent than is maintenance staff.

Yeah, I can't see anything going wrong with a floating swinging ship ride.

Space is less of a limiting reagent than is maintenance staff.

Like how Mean streak has an entire crew of its own, haha? I'm sure it would be no fun task, as Mine Ride must be pretty easy to maintain when compared to some of the other coasters. It's inevitable that one day they're going to want to make a new coaster, whether it be transition or large, and if they want that space I don't think anything's going to stop them.

It's a possibility, perhaps more or less than some of the other coasters, so let's leave it at that.

Yeah, I can't see anything going wrong with a floating swinging ship ride.

Nah.

Seriously though, I'd love for them to build over the lake. They pour footers for bridges, I'm sure they could do the same for an over-water coaster if they wanted to.