Dick Kinzel's Revenge! (Shot Glass size Free Water Cups)...

Well I do know my movie theater has more ridiculous pircing than CP. I payed $4 for a small coke, where at CP it is $3.09 I believe.

But you're likely getting more than 20oz of soda at the theater, and you get free refills. Plus, you don't spend 10-12 hours at the theater.

Free refills at the theatre? I didn't know that. Of course, with the size of those cups I would be in the bathroom more than the movie if I drank more than one.

And we wonder why American's are fat?!?! 20-64oz of soda at a "pop" (no pun intended). Hmmm...why indeed?

Chief Wahoo said:
Ok...here is a serious question. How many people (outside of our enthusiast community) are going to the Point thinking about the "value" they will be receiving?

I think the appropriate question is how many are not. Judging by the 2Q results, with drops in attendance and per cap, I'd say quite a few.

Who is up right now Jeff? I don't mean that sarcastically. I haven't been following the industry that closely. I know Six Flags and Disney are reporting substantially lower numbers and deep discounting at Disney is keeping that from being worse.

With the midwest being the hardest hit in what is already a challenging economy I'm not sure what real expectations Cedar Fair had for CP (and King's Island)...small water cups notwithstanding.

Again...I think the pricing is crazy. But, I'm not sure it is entirely clear as to the impact that is having on the park(s) this summer.

I was at the point yesterday and there are new water cups. They have the pepsi logo and are probably half the size of a small drink.

Chief Wahoo said:
Free refills at the theatre? I didn't know that. Of course, with the size of those cups I would be in the bathroom more than the movie if I drank more than one.

Yep, and on popcorn as well. Of course, most people never take advantage of this, myself included.

Chief Wahoo said:
Ok...here is a serious question. How many people (outside of our enthusiast community) are going to the Point thinking about the "value" they will be receiving?

(stuff deleted)

There is a "breaking point" to all of this pricing. When I worked at Disney I had a chance to question an executive on ticket pricing. I asked if it was unfair to charge as much as they did for admission (and this is when it is half what it is now) because it limits some folks from being able to visit the park. His rather blatant response was that they WANTED to limit some folks from being able to enter the park. If it was too "reasonable" the crowds would be unbearable for everyone.

It's getting off topic, but my gripe with Disney's admission pricing is that while their single day ticket price is probably fine for Disneyland or the Magic Kingdom, it's ridiculous that they seem to think that all of their properties are the same value. They're not even close. If anything, they're steering people *into* their most crowded properties by effectively charging too much for the other ones.

But yes, there is a breaking point to absurd pricing, which is why I don't buy food or drink at Cedar Point. Oddly enough, I don't think I have obtained a cup of water there yet this season, either, though I have done that several times at Kings Island.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Chief Wahoo said:
Who is up right now Jeff? I don't mean that sarcastically. I haven't been following the industry that closely. I know Six Flags and Disney are reporting substantially lower numbers and deep discounting at Disney is keeping that from being worse.

Disney's attendance and occupancy is not down in a significant way at all. Sure, they're pricing stuff down, but that's exactly my point. It's business as usual at Cedar Fair and they're getting their ass kicked for not responding to the market.

^ Well said.

And when I go to Disney, I don't feel like I am being bent over. The quality and price of the food and drinks are great.

Perhaps their (Disney) attendance and occupancy isn't down but their revenues are certainly down. I've heard that from a number of good sources. And, I question their public release of occupancy figures. I'm running a Conference at the Corondo Spring in about two weeks and two weeks ago they told me they were at 50% occupancy...down from 70-80% over this time last year.

I also wonder about the reaction time. When your operating season is only 126 days (or whatever) I'm wondering how much time it takes to gear up and then market any kind of pricing strategies.

But, there is no doubt that Kinzel & company is slow to react. It sometimes feels like an ego thing to me.

Have fun at the coronado.

I stayed there last year, and the only suggestion I have is to requst a room near the front of the resort. It was a loooooong walk from the back where we were, to the front.

Also, check out the bar inside the food court as it was fun.

"Perhaps their (Disney) attendance and occupancy isn't down but their revenues are certainly down. I've heard that from a number of good sources."

That may be true, but at least they are getting people into the parks and they are making SOME money. That just also says to me that a lot of people that go to cedarpoint, are now going to disney.

As far as the coronado only being booked at 50%, that may also have to do something with the fact that the coronado is also a convention center of sorts. And company's are not doing as much as they were doing in years past.

I should also comment that Disney is benefitting a great deal from the dollar being weak. While they might not bring in tons of US tourists Europeans are coming in plane loads. Disney is still one of the world's leading tourist destinations and that is where the comparisons to the regional parks really start to become unfair.

(I stayed at Coronado last year and really liked it. But, I'll point out something relevant to this thread. They have a "souvenir cup" you buy once and get free refills throughout your stay. It actually is a pretty good deal if you are there for more than a couple of days. But, this year that cup costs $2 more and is 25% smaller than the one they had last year.)

Oh...and people aren't choosing Disney over Cedar Point (in any significant numbers) because Disney is perceived as a better value.

I would say that 75% of the Point's problems this year are related to the economy. That doesn't mean they should ignore the other 24% of the problems that they have control over (like food pricing/customer service) but I still say you can't peg all of their woes on a $12 sub sandwich.

{Edited to add that I don't know what the other 1% is. That might be attributable to me since I am not making a trip to CP this year and we usually spend a ton of money while we are there. Italy got that $$$ this year.}

All of the Disney resort hotels have the refill cups. I think they are $12 if I remember right. The refills are free....not 99 cents, not $1.49....but free. And that's for soda, coffee, slushies, tea, milk, and juice.

Here they are.... http://allears.net/din/mugs.htm

I got one from pop century resort.

The Coronado Springs mug went from this size to this size.

Between having the Dining Plan, the smaller size of the mug, and the distance to the food court, we determined it wasn't worth the price on our last trip.

The one I saw at the Coronado a couple of weeks ago looked smaller than the one you have pictured there Walt. But, I'll be at a Conference and never off the resort property so that cup will still be a good bargain for me.

In that case, for sure. We had a meeting there back in 2007. It's a really nice facility, and I loved the resort.

Yea, with the dinning plan there is no need to get the cup unless you are spending a lot of time at the hotel.

I think kinzel and CO, need to make a trip to Disney and take some notes.

Anyway, back to cedarpoint.

Kinzel frequents Disney. He knows what they are doing. But I can assure you that the Disney fanboys (and girls) have mountains of complaints for that company too.

Maybe a case of "the grass is always greener...."