Chick-fil-A Ban

If you don't want to be called names, I strongly suggest avoiding the Internet.

I don't know why free speech keeps coming up at all. At no time, in any discussion that I've seen, has anyone suggested that Cathy can't say what he wants. That's not an issue for anyone that I'm aware of. At the same time, having free speech doesn't mean that what you say makes you devoid of responsibility. When you combine those words with actions that actively attempt to make a subset of the population less equal than others, you cross into a new realm where things just won't stand, and people will push back.

And just as clarification (and please it's not meant as a direct attack at you Mavericklaunch) but I think the point way back was that if you give them money then you're part of the bigotry process....whether or not you are yourself a true bigot. I mean it's sort of a hard thing to elaborate further without wrongfully accusing some one of being a bigot.

In the true end, is it really worth your health to be making a point by eating there anyway? :)

I understand the debate is not over free speech, but over where the money is spent.

And I'm sorry but this is not a Straw Man argument- it has just as much weight, if not more- than the Gay Marriage debate.

WHAT ABOUT CEDAR FAIR'S MONEY THAT GOES TO SUPPORT SLAVERY IN OTHER COUNTRIES?

Are we ignoring this issue, simply because we want to focus on what is current? It is a fact that the plush toys and other merchandise items throughout the parks are made by people who are forced to work in horrible conditions. If groups here are calling Cedar Fair to pull Chick Fil A, then I also am for Cedar Fair only doing business with companies who treat their employees with dignity and respect. When you play that midway game this year- just remember that plush toy you give to your child was made by probably a similar child his/her age who has no freedom whatsoever. This is a topic I am very passionate about, and feel that this is the appropriate forum to bring it up in. SUPPORT COMPANIES THAT DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH COMPANIES THAT SUPPORT MODERN DAY SLAVERY!

I can't hear you over the tapping on my Foxconn made iPad from China where workers commit suicide over working conditions.

"It is a matter of fact that your money spent on [an ipad] is being used to support a [company that] limits the freedoms of a segment of the population. If you know this, and continue to give the corporation your money, your actions are willfully oppressive." Though good luck finding an electronics that don't present similar issues.

Jeff said:
When you combine those words with actions that actively attempt to make a subset of the population less equal than others, you cross into a new realm where things just won't stand, and people will push back.

Well Mr. Jeff, I hope that you begin to "push back" on your electronic purchases.

Fortunately, paying people low wages for jobs they choose to have in a developing economy is nothing at all like telling dudes who love dudes that they're lesser people in the government's view.

Jeff, do you have any preference as to whether your son is straight or gay? I'm in no way trying to be offensive, just curious if you are that indifferent about it.

I'll jump back in here, as a father of two, and a marriage and family therapist who does a ton of pre-marital therapy.

Do I care in any way if one of my daughter's is a lesbian? No. In fact, this is something my wife and I have discussed, and something that I discuss with each and every couple that comes in for premarital therapy. You should see the looks on some of their faces, especially when they find out how often they disagree. :) It's a wonderful process to help them work through.

Out of all of us who have posted on this thread, some of us will have children that we will one day find out are homosexual. That's a fact of life. It has nothing to do with you who are, what religion you are, what toys you have in your house...it's something your child will discover on his/her own just as all of us did when we felt our first crush.

This is what disappoints me the most with those who are opposed ot gay marriage. I am not homosexual, but I have family, friends, and possible children who are.

Why don't you want them to be happy?

It's the same as racism. Your have as much say over your orientation as your skin color. How is it any different?

That said, I can live with the fact that many don't believe this, and don't want to "support" gay marriage. That's fine. You don't have to "like" black people either, but that doesn't make it right to pass laws of the land (much less a frickin constitutional amendment...see George Bush Jr.) that discriminate.

I love my daughters know matter what who they are or become, Kyle.

What purpose does this topic have on here? This is just personal views that really have no place in here.

Although I do crave some Chik Fil A for some reason.

^^ I don't understand why you equate something not going as preferred with no "love". I think that's the heart of the issue, some people assume people simply must be "extreme" in one direction or the other, how sad. Of course we love our kids no matter what, how disappointing anyone, a therapist none the less, would equate something not going as preferred (kids going into the military if we're scared for them, choosing to live over seas, being gay, etc) with not loving them.

I prefer my children to do with their lives what they choose. That's how much I love them.

You were insinuating that Jeff, or I, or any other parent would have a preference as to whether our children were gay. That was your point.

^ No, what I said was people aren't all extreme one way or the other. Sure, some people hate gays, some hate them so much they would dis-own children if they were gay. Some are 100% indifferent. But I think a lot are somewhere in the "preference" area. Maybe they lean towards gay marriage but don't want their church to have to marry gay people, maybe they lean towards gay marriage but don't feel they should be as protected as a minority as race, or maybe they're for gay marriage but would prefer their children be straight, or any number of combinations of this-but-that. My point is why are you acting like people simply must completely support the idea or be protesting against it? That just drives hate from both sides.

Jeff said:
Fortunately, paying people low wages for jobs they choose to have in a developing economy is nothing at all like telling dudes who love dudes that they're lesser people in the government's view.

But its more than just low wage jobs. Its majority safety issues. Forced overtime. Violations of Chinese labor laws (which aren't known to be very stringent in the first place) and of Apple policies (which from what I have seen have been confirmed multiple times by Apple in audits). Underage workers who I doubt choose to work there. And saying that workers are committing suicide over working conditions but at the same time are choosing to work there doesn't make much sense.

As to what parents want for their kids, I agree that parents have dreams, goals and wishes for their kids. But at least for me, any plans/goals/dreams that I had for my kids went out the window as soon as they were born. They are who they are. Some of who they are is consistent with my dreams, goals and wishes and other aspects are not. But I have two great kids. And as a parent, I think its my job to help them to be the best of who they are not who I think they should be. One of the worst things I have seen parents do to their kids is try to fit them into the mold of what the parents want them to be.

I want my kids to be happy. I would prefer that they be gay and happy over straight and unhappy. Saying I want them to be straight is forcing who I am on them as I am straight. Not something I want to do for them or for me. But I also realize that every parent is different just like every kid.

GoBucks89 said:

Jeff said:
Fortunately, paying people low wages for jobs they choose to have in a developing economy is nothing at all like telling dudes who love dudes that they're lesser people in the government's view.

...Underage workers who I doubt choose to work there.

They work to help provide for their families. Thus they choose to work there.

I'm speaking totally as a 19 year old and some one who doesn't want kids, but wouldn't you at least want your kids to be straight so they don't have all the hardship the rest of their life? They are, unfortunately, going to face bullying, being scrutinized, etc.. Why would you not care if they have to face that? I understand you would support them and love them no matter what, I get that, but to say you have no preference makes no sense to me. I, as a parent, wouldn't want them to face that.

I wouldn't want them to face that either, but that does not mean I would "prefer" them to be something that they have no control over.

All just a matter of perspective, I suppose.

Of course we love our kids no matter what, how disappointing anyone, a therapist none the less, would equate something not going as preferred (kids going into the military if we're scared for them, choosing to live over seas, being gay, etc) with not loving them.

My child going into the military is a choice for them.
So is living over seas.

Being gay? Not a choice.

And yes, I'm pretty damn extreme when it come to this issue. First to admit that. Pretty extreme on the simple belief that two consenting adults have a right to fall in love, and should be given the simple civil liberty of a marriage certificate.

^"All just a matter of perspective, I suppose."

I agree with that. I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about these subjects. I was just asking a question in which I agree with your response, and I understand it.

Wow, 3:35 in the morning and I finally just caught up with all 26 pages of this thread...

I'm not sure if I'm capable of adding anything new to this discussion, as virtually every conceivable point has been made numerous times. But I will suggest this:

To all the contributors who have declared their opposition to gays having the right to marry, I would be grateful if you could do me this favor: With a clear and calm mind, please think about the various reasons you're opposed to gays being able to marry. Write the arguments down if you could, or at least bring them into concrete focus in your thoughts (if you haven't already done so).

Now, think about the reasons that were used to support opposition to interracial marriage. You probably already know a good bit about it, but if not then please check it out online or elsewhere.

Line the two lists up: your reasons for opposing gay marriage, and the reasons people had for opposing interracial marriage previously. Are some or maybe even most of the arguments similar or identical?

If the above is the case for you, consider the ramifications of that. If you oppose gay marriage for pretty much the same reasons people opposed interracial marriage, shouldn't you opppose interracial marriage too? Do you? If not, why not?

Not an attack here, not an attempt to trick or patronize anybody on either side of the debate. Just a wish to facilitate some additional thought on the matter.

Thanks.

For me it has never been about being for or against gay marriage. The orginal poster stated that he would like to see Cedar Fair throw CFA out of the park. Whether you agree or disagree with CFA's CEO or not is not relevant. He has a right to say what he said. He has a right to follow and express his relgious beliefs and he can choose to spend his company's money however he wishes. He is allowed to support causes he believes in. If you do not like their causes or don't agree with how they are spending their money, don't give them your money.

My view, Cedar Fair should not terminate this business relationship because of this issue. They have no grounds to do so and judging by the support CFA received on the unoffical apprerciation day it would not be a very wise or popular decision either.

I don't think anyone on this forum would want to be fired because where they chose to spend the money they earned.