Cedar Point new security checkpoint

djDaemon said:

ValravnCP said:

Unless you are up to no good, why does it matter so much for people to know what you are bringing into the park.

Unless you are up to no good, why does it matter if authorities search your house at random?

You people make such a huge deal out of it for no reason. Grow up.

Honestly, I feel bad for you. You're obviously living in a state of constant fear that is completely unjustified by the reality around you. You think ISIS is lurking around every corner, just waiting to take your life.

Lucky for them, they don't have to bother. They've already taken your life, with you living in a state of fear so profound you're willing to give up your privacy - and far worse, argue that others should give up theirs - just so you can wrap yourself in the illusion of safety.

Honestly I feel bad for you. You just can't wrap your head around the difference between having your home searched and having your bags searched at a popular amusement park. I live in no fear, I just find it a BIT odd that someone can be so passionately against security at an amusement park. Obviously there is someone wrong if you get so angry at the idea of being searched on someone else's property.

While all of this armchair quarterbacking around security continues, I talked to someone with a public venue here in Orlando that had a credible threat just last week. And you know what? All of the things that some of you label as "theater" most certainly helped to mitigate or reduce the threat.

Perhaps my point is that a) you don't know what exactly any venue is responding to, and b) you don't know what you're talking about in terms of what an effective deterrent is. Launching into a bunch of hyperbole about freedom and 'Merica and terrorists doesn't necessarily support any argument if you don't have all of the context.

ValravnCP said:

I live in no fear...

LOL, right.

ValravnCP said:

With the huge threat of ISIS...

ValravnCP said:

...there are so many cases of radical Islamists...

ValravnCP said:

...terrorist...

ValravnCP said:

Nobody expects anything bad to happen to them. Then it does.

ValravnCP said:

Terrorists threaten all the time...

It's sad that we live in a world with so much evil.

Lol it's called stating what's real, wake up. This isn't a fantasy world where everyone prances through the meadows hand in hand surrounded by rainbows and puppies. Watch the news every once in a while. I'm done responding to your ignorance.

Based on a decade and a half of research, I think I have a good idea of what I'm talking about. Can't speak for anyone else, but I think I know what I'm talking about.

http://heyjackass.com

Noggin, don't you live here? Is that your research?
Perhaps they could use some magnetometers everywhere there...

(Remember I missed your posts when you were moving and was glad when you came back here :) )

Jeff said:
All of the things that some of you label as "theater" most certainly helped to mitigate or reduce the threat.

What metrics were used to determine that? Who determined there was a credible threat to begin with? Was it Homeland Security? They are know to raise the alarm because of vague information that may or may not be an actual threat. How many people here think Homeland Security is more competent than the TSA?

...given that TSA is an agency of Homeland Security...

And just yesterday I saw a photo showing one of those big ugly tent-wannabes has been erected at a point of entry to the main gate plaza. It looks like it is way too close to the parking lot for comfort. But then, why not expose everybody at the front gate to the same traffic hazards as the people at the marina and resort gates? At least it's still better than Knott's, where the checkpoint overflow is going to end up in a public street...

I'll be the first to agree with XS NightClub that this is a private space and there are no real 4th Amendment concerns. But that doesn't change the fact that in a place of public accommodation, should the guidelines applied to the government not be considered a reasonable standard?

But that's not my concern.

I just don't like being treated like an assumed threat. And I hate the use of inappropriate safeguards. I especially hate it when the mitigation for some imagined or unlikely hazard makes a very real hazard more likely to happen. And I really dislike the fact that aggressive searches at venue entrances tend to leave me with the impression...somewhat backed up by recent realities...that such places are actually *less* safe.

ValravnCP said:

Just never heard anyone complain about security other than those who have been caught trying to sneak something into the park. (...)

You just haven't been paying attention. I've been here since Page 2 of this thread. But why should I have to prove that I am not a threat? And why should I be subject to a search that is much better at finding non-threatening things than it is at finding truly threatening ones? Just from the convenience standpoint, I would be less annoyed if I had to walk through a gun detector (if such a thing existed) than I am having to walk through a metal detector.

These kinds of security measures are like putting shoulder bars on a drop tower. It's the wrong mitigation for the problem at hand.

Personally, I think FUN probably bought a package deal with some useful security technology (cameras or DVRs or something like that) and got a great deal on a bunch of magnetometers in the process.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

ValravnCP said:

Lol it's called stating what's real, wake up. This isn't a fantasy world where everyone prances through the meadows hand in hand surrounded by rainbows and puppies. Watch the news every once in a while. I'm done responding to your ignorance.

You have turned into XS's Sean Spicer, just need a puppy and a gun prop ;)

There are plenty of ignorant people in this world, those that have responded to you aren't. Someone disagreeing with you or voicing a different opinion than you does not = ignorance.

Ignorance would be trying to blame the current state of TSA security measures and heightened state of terrorist threats on someone who's been there for 3 months, not the last 8 years.

I've repeatedly brought the private property rights to this discussion as its most appropriate and has nothing to do with violating constitutional privacy rights. Politics doesn't color my opinion, as I see it from a business owner thats been operating since 1996 in an industry that has seen threats (recently at pulse nightclub Orlando). And I am the one that is responsible for my guest and employee safety, so I see safety in a different light than some others here. Which is why I think Cedar Fair, Disney, Universal, NFL, NBA and the Orlando place Jeff was speaking of know whats best for their properties. But thanks for the intended diss.

XS NightClub said:

Noggin, don't you live here? Is that your research?

Hey, I'm a suburbanite now! Leave me out of that Chicago craziness! :-) We're nice, peaceful folk here in Evergreen Park.

Trust me: you don't want me to unleash all the details of my research over the years. Because I will go on. And on. At length. In detail. Fun with ASD. :-)

(Remember I missed your posts when you were moving and was glad when you came back here :) )

Aw shucks... Now you've made me blush...

1. We all agree that it's private property and the park can choose whichever method of security they want.

2. We all understand the possibility of threats at places of mass assembly.

Where the disagreement seems to come is the perception of effectiveness. Are part-time or seasonal security employees going to deter threats or prevent dangerous persons from entering? Sometimes. I would point to car door locks and security alarms for comparison. A professional knows how to get around security measures, but those are deterrents not prevention. Do these deterrents prove effective at times? Sure. So does locking your door at night. But you know that if you really want to get into your house with your door locked there are methods available.

The criticism of the "security theater" presented in this discussion is based on the idea that it's not a hugely effective deterrent. Let's present an example, just for the sake of argument:

Gate A has no security, but has a two hosts checking for admission. Gate B has metal detectors, security officers with wands, and one host checking for admission. Neither gate has law enforcement or methods of detention. Both gates have communication equipment (radios, phones) to inform law enforcement of threats. Which gate is more secure, more effective, and why?

I think Jeff responded to that already.

Jeff said:
Perhaps my point is that a) you don't know what exactly any venue is responding to, and b) you don't know what you're talking about in terms of what an effective deterrent is. Launching into a bunch of hyperbole about freedom and 'Merica and terrorists doesn't necessarily support any argument if you don't have all of the context.

One positive outcome of security, less fanny packs. Enthusiasts won't waste time at the gate getting searched, as that'll increase the run to the front of the line time. So less of that crap in the park haha

The problem with that idea is some of us genuinely need the crap we bring with us and now that I'll have to go through security every time I reenter the park I won't be leaving my crap in the car to get later. I'll just be stuffing my pockets that much fuller.

Why do you need that much stuff?
(Before I get flamed it was a joking response to stuffing pockets full of stuff.
I full understand people need to bring some stuff with them and don't expect them to disclose that on a message board. )

I'm still "Switzerland" on this whole topic but I did see something interesting last Saturday at Kings Island. Someone had hidden their HUMONGOUS bowie knife inside a plastic fence post, right before the metal detectors. Had to alert a security guard so they could confiscate it.

Sooo.......I guess it's something. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This thread has been amazing. Thank you. I've been following it after listening to a podcast discussing why the "Change My View" page on Reddit has been so successful at helping people "change their mind." Needless to say, the success the moderators there have found in helping people talk about divergent opinions seems to be a little higher than the success rate here. Nonetheless, I've appreciated everyone's passion on this thread. Here's a link to the Reddit page (and the podcast from which I discovered the page), if you're interested.

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2016/10/09/yanss-086-change-my-view/

https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/

Want to see REAL security? Go through Ben Gurion Airport! Of course, that would never work at a place like CP.

Experienced the process for two days at Carowinds this weekend and it wasn't too horrible. They had signs above each metal detector stating what they wanted removed from pockets and bags and what could stay. (Sorry I didn't grab a pic) The main objects they wanted removed were cell phones, cameras and other forms of electronics. They allowed you to keep keys, loose change and wallets in your pockets, and jewelry and belts on. The sensitivity seems relatively low and the process was fairly smooth. They did poke around purses and bags with their sticks however. Never waited much more then 10 minutes and the lines were fairly long. The nice thing about this whole process I noticed was that the lines were at the metal detectors and it freed up the attendants taking your pass/tickets so there was no line there at all. Give and take I guess...

Also, PSA, your platinum pass does not give you the right to skip the security line and go to the front as a group of 20 somethings learned... see something new every visit I guess.