Cedar Point new security checkpoint

djDaemon said:
Yes, I remember in the mid-90's (when violent crime was significantly more prominent than it is now) just how dangerous it was in the park. People were getting shanked by drunk hooligans left and right! It's a miracle any of us survived.

Crime is less, but not eliminated for sure. Also, who says it's to protect people. People bring their own liquor into the park, someone gets drunk, gets in a ride area / etc and is drunk...Guess who loses a state liquor license really quick. Hell being at a distillery, that's a thought every time we see some guy get a bottle and leave if he cracks it open in the parking lot & goes. He's at fault for sure, but you know who makes a frenzy out of stuff like that.

Like I said, I don't expect this to be TSA, nor nothing like it. I do expect it to be used to screen threats they've established a need to prevent.

Let's say a terrorist wants to be typical and target as many people as he can. He goes to a place where thousands gather. No security checks, gun in bag, walks right in. Find the most populated place, pulls out gun and opens fire. Or drops bookbag in building and runs. A lot more people will die than if there was security at the front and he thinks, "well i will be caught if i try to get in the park, so ill just attack out here where there are less people, oh well, ALLAHU AKBAR!" The security lines are fast and there are many. It's not like you will have thousands of people waiting in a mile long line. Any security is better than none. ISIS or not, a guy with a gun or bomb will not get through the park gates easily. Again, if you have an issue with security, something is wrong with you.

No there's nothing wrong with me, but I don't want to live in a society that is so secure (ie not free) that any sort of attack is impossible. Sounds like prison to me. I'm not really that scared to walk around outside or into a bar or a store where people might have knives or guns on them because I believe the vast majority of people aren't terrorists and aren't insane. Even <gasp> the ones that pray to Allah! I like going from place to place without getting frisked all the time, presenting papers, having chips implanted in me, etc. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be free and if you think eliminating all chance for attack and still being free is something that's possible, you'll have to think about it a bit more creatively.

I can live with a check of my bag or stroller or whatever CP wants to do because it's their property and I have to follow their rules in order to enter. We can argue all day long about its intent and its effectiveness, but implying that CP checking bags is going to stop an actual terrorist (and that there's something wrong with the rest of us who know it won't) is kind of out there.

thedevariouseffect said:
Crime is less, but not eliminated for sure.

The same is true of death by being crushed by vending machines, and yet the park is full of them.

Also, who says it's to protect people. People bring their own liquor into the park, someone gets drunk, gets in a ride area / etc and is drunk...Guess who loses a state liquor license really quick.

I don't see anything in Ohio's code that suggests the park could lose its liquor license in such an event. And frankly that doesn't stand up to common sense. So long as the park takes reasonable precautions - rounding up anyone who's wasted, confiscating bottles of Jack Daniels, etc. - I don't see why they'd be held responsible for someone sneaking in a flask and puking.

I do expect it to be used to screen threats they've established a need to prevent.

Again, what you're suggesting makes no sense. Metal detectors weren't needed when crime was high, but they are needed now that it's much lower?

Look, I'm sure the park has its reasons. I'm not arguing that they don't. I'm just saying that if we as a society weren't so irrationally afraid of terrorism, we wouldn't be so dismissive of this type of security theater. And that worries me.

MDOmnis said:

No there's nothing wrong with me...

Other than you being a Michigan resident I'd agree with this.

-----

So this past weekend I visited Kings Dominion, Carowinds, and Dollywood.

KD & Carowinds have adopted the similar CF policy of metal detectors. It wasn't as much of a joke as the wanding that was happening at Halloweekends last fall. Phones, keys, wallets, and eyeglass cases went in the plastic bins, you walked through, collected your things and you were on your way. If you had a bag, it was inspected.

It's a little delay in getting in the park and I fully expect the same procedure at CP.

Dollywood apparently wants ISIS to attack them because there weren't metal detectors. They did the bag inspection at the gate, but that was it. But honestly, Dolly is a sweetheart, what would ISIS have against her?

In all seriousness, I'm on the fence when it comes to metal detectors. I don't carry a gun or a knife and I'd rather be in a park where only the trained security staff carries weapons. That trained security staff should be around the park monitoring and deescalating situations that occur. Is that system 100% fool proof? Obviously not. But my father-like brain focuses on removing as many risks as possible and deal with the ones that happen as they occur. Metal detectors being present can remove more weapons (risks) from a park, or airport, or any public place than not having them at all.

But did I feel unsafe at Dollywood for not having metal detectors? Not one bit. There was a generous presence of park staff and security available should anything have occurred.

~Rob

ValravnCP said:

Let's say a terrorist wants to be typical and target as many people as he can. He goes to a place where thousands gather.

Yes, like the enormous bottleneck of people gathered in line for the metal detectors. Show me a larger concentration of people anywhere inside the park gates. Where else does a herd like that form? Maybe Celebration Plaza?

The security lines are fast and there are many. It's not like you will have thousands of people waiting in a mile long line.

Ah, so you've never actually been to CP on a Saturday in late June. Now I understand.

...if you have an issue with security, something is wrong with you.

No, frankly something is wrong with you. You're freaking out over something that is incredibly unlikely to happen to you. There are many things that are more likely to kill you than a terrorist. As I said, you're 400 times more likely to die in your car than by way of terrorism, and yet you drive every day presumably.

djDaemon said:

thedevariouseffect said:

...I think my original stopping pocket knives, booze, etc. is a valid response.

Yes, I remember in the mid-90's (when violent crime was significantly more prominent than it is now) just how dangerous it was in the park. People were getting shanked by drunk hooligans left and right! It's a miracle any of us survived.

I don't always sneak beer into Cedar Point, but when I do, it's in plastic bottles. 🍻

ValravnCP said:

It doesn't take long at all and I believe that anyone who has such an issue with being searched and scanned which takes ~1 minute must have something to hide.

Well, that is kind of a jaw dropping statement, pretty much un American if you support the ideologies of our founding fathers.

Why object to being searched at the entrance to a venue? If you do you must have something to hide. Why object to being asked for your ID and searched by a cop on the street? If you do you must have something to hide. Why object to authorities knocking on your door and searching your house? If you do you must have something to hide.

thedevariouseffect said:

.....but the visual deterrence is enough for most idiots.

I would think at Cedar Point the better visual deterrence would be the gun on the hips of the police officers all over the park.

So interesting story that happened to me last night. I had to stop at a park real quick to grab something from a friend. I had a few items I was using for work on my hip and one of them included a Gerber multi-tool. I removed it, along with my knife but kept the multi-tool sheath on my belt. After passing through the metal detector the officer asked if I had a knife on me. I responded that I did not and he asked again and if there was one in the sheath. I again said no but you could tell he wanted to actually see for himself. I asked "Wouldn't that have set off the metal detector?". He said they don't really pick stuff up. Interesting indeed.

Pete you cracked me up, only difference is I put the Russian water into the bottle ;)

I've said before on this thread, I'm not really sure where I stand on the issue. As XS said reasonable people can agree to disagree. As someone who has grown up only seeing war and mass shootings it can be very difficult at times to think logically about the issue. Conversations like this are very important and should happen more often, alot can be learned from intelligent folks like you.

Having no security at airports is ridiculous (Not that anyone here is saying that). But the issue isn't someone having a weapon on the plane, the issue is that weapon being used to make the airplane a weapon. That logic doesn't apply to CP. As far as I know you can't hijack a roller coaster train. Who knows though, maybe that's where the green train went on MF.

People of my generation though, I have to assume because of being bombarded with horrible events their whole life are more susceptible to giving into these extra precautions as the new normal. It also helps that CP is located in the middle-top of Ohio. If CP were in the center of NYC the conversation may well be very different. Who knows.

With social media being around, bad things get alot more attention and the news spreads faster these days than they did about 10-20 years ago. And the media likes to inject fear-mongering into their viewers or readers. Plus, government officials like to use these events to further their political agendas. Plus, a metal detector at the gate likely isn't going to stop anyone with bad intent. When they get to the detector, they are more likely just to use their weapons right then and there and with an easy target of possibly hundreds waiting in line. Whether they do it outside of the park or inside isn't relative for them, they accomplished their goal either way. And I'm almost 100% sure if they park had it their way, they wouldn't do anything at the gates. It's obvious it's for insurance purposes.It's all just companies giving into the fear-mongering fed to them by the media.

Nobody expects anything bad to happen to them. Then it does. Prepare for the unexpected. I am sure ISIS doesn't care about our fun. They hate America so much they kill themselves just to kill us. Sorry but I can't see a terrorist thinking "well, I don't want to attack at a busy amusement park. That's just too mean." If you think terrorists have a heart then you must be living under a rock.

No, I am not saying I feel unsafe without it, I just think it helps.
I go to CP 15-20 times a year. I have been there on the fourth of july and i have been there during labor day weekend(which was busier than independence day). We go out to the car for lunch, usually that is when everyone gets to the park. Not sure if they had security during labor day weekend or not, but if they did it was not at all a long wait. I remember one crowded day when they were checking, we were coming back into the park after eating lunch, expecting long lines at security only it was not long at all. I would say at most a 3 minute wait.

If you can't think of any areas in the park that a lot of people gather, then you obviously don't go to CP very often.

It is actually ironic. You complain about waiting in a short line to get into the park and have no issue with standing in long lines to ride rides. You must be that impatient.

Having your house searched is much different than a bag you are taking into a park. Pretty sure you wouldn't be bringing in anything that would have you complain about violation of privacy. Unless you are up to no good, why does it matter so much for people to know what you are bringing into the park. You people make such a huge deal out of it for no reason. Grow up.

If you don't like security, you can just not go to Cedar Point instead of complaining nonstop about something so minor which you cannot change.

Çp4€và04 said:

Why on earth does someone having a different view than you require him/her to buy shares in the company we are talking about? Oh and if for some reason they did according to you they would get "Laughed out of the room"?

Or because someone disagrees with the policy they should just not go to a place that they love and adore. Fantastic logic. It's a damn forum, it's meant for discussion and debate. The only reason anyone is posting here is because we all love the place.

Overall I don't know where I stand on this issue, reading the comments has me swaying both ways. Call me bi-security ;) But telling folks to just stay home if they don't like it is absurd. This isn't you're local McDonald's where there are 5 in town.

Then look at my post only a few above this, that's my response to you sir.

Just never heard anyone complain about security other than those who have been caught trying to sneak something into the park. It just makes no sense. And there are other parks out there besides Cedar Point, you know. If going through security is going to ruin your whole day, just find another park. Complain about bad things, not good things.

I find nothing wrong for this security to be permanent. To only have it during a "threat" is silly. Terrorists threaten all the time, but never attack until we let down our guard. It's not being paranoid, it's called being safe. It's sad that we live in a world with so much evil. If something did happen and there was no security checkpoint, it would be a lot worse than if something happened AT the checkpoint.

ValravnCP said:
Let's say a terrorist wants to be typical and target as many people as he can. He goes to a place where thousands gather. No security checks, gun in bag, walks right in. Find the most populated place, pulls out gun and opens fire. Or drops bookbag in building and runs. A lot more people will die than if there was security at the front and he thinks, "well i will be caught if i try to get in the park, so ill just attack out here where there are less people...

Except that, in most places, the security folks at the gate have no authority to detain anyone. They have to wait for the police to arrive, and in the meantime, the miscreant in question can run amuck inside or outside of the park.

I'm much more comfortable not seeing security theater at the gate and knowing that security inside the park / baseball stadium / zoo / etc is focused on monitoring folks behaving in suspicious ways.

ValravnCP said:

Unless you are up to no good, why does it matter so much for people to know what you are bringing into the park.

Unless you are up to no good, why does it matter if authorities search your house at random?

You people make such a huge deal out of it for no reason. Grow up.

Honestly, I feel bad for you. You're obviously living in a state of constant fear that is completely unjustified by the reality around you. You think ISIS is lurking around every corner, just waiting to take your life.

Lucky for them, they don't have to bother. They've already taken your life, with you living in a state of fear so profound you're willing to give up your privacy - and far worse, argue that others should give up theirs - just so you can wrap yourself in the illusion of safety.

the Fourth Amendment protects a person and their property from searches by the government wherever there is a “reasonable expectation of privacy.” For instance, trash that is still inside a person's home is protected; trash sitting beside the street curb for pickup is not.

The constitutional rights to privacy are from government intrusion. This does not apply to others private property and is not intruded upon in any way by searching or wanding as a requirement for entry. There are no rights being given up in any way by this.

All true.

None of which makes security theater an effective way to combat those who want to do harm.

And while everyone shouts security theater, another metal detector is installed :)