Cedar Point Dethroned: Golden Ticket Awards 2014!

I know this isn't the popular opinion here, but I miss Dick...

Yes, the Gemini Midway is beautiful. Yes, Gatekeeper is a beautiful entrance decoration (but not much else).

...But from 1989 - 2007 CP was an innovation center. It's not anymore. I miss that.

Mystical Matthew said:

...But from 1989 - 2007 CP was an innovation center. It's not anymore. I miss that.

...and it probably never will be again. Dicks philosophy is the reason the chain incurred so much debt. Dick just happened to be in the right place at the right time, I really don't think he was an innovator. In Matts few short years he has fixed many things that made the park sterile in my opinion. Tallest and fastest does not make money and Matt gets it.

I'd be curious to see number of votes received for each poll participant, opposed to percentage of votes received.

Shane Denmark said:
I'd be curious to see number of votes received for each poll participant, opposed to percentage of votes received.

And Id like to see those numbers going back the past 15 years.

coasterJay said:

Mystical Matthew said:

...But from 1989 - 2007 CP was an innovation center. It's not anymore. I miss that.

...and it probably never will be again. Dicks philosophy is the reason the chain incurred so much debt. Dick just happened to be in the right place at the right time, I really don't think he was an innovator. In Matts few short years he has fixed many things that made the park sterile in my opinion. Tallest and fastest does not make money and Matt gets it.

I was under the impression that most of the debt came from purchasing the Kings Parks, not from investments in CP.

Invertalon said:
Regardless of how silly these awards can be, they are still very important for the parks marketing wise. I am sure they are quite disappointed that they did not get it.

I'd go for mildly disappointed, maybe. The Golden Tickets are great for marketing when you win, and no great loss when you don't.

Too bad. I bet Europa decided to up their Advertising budget with Amusement Today to the point where it was more than CP's spend.

I honestly knew nothing about Europa until I heard this news this morning and decided to look at a couple of YouTube videos about the place. Looks pretty nice - kind of reminded me of a Busch park, but with more rides. It doesn't really change anything for me though. Maybe when I am old and rich, I'll take one trip there or something, but my family and I will continue to be CP passholders because we love the park, we live in the midwest, and multiple trips to Europe every summer are not in the cards.

As for saying CP is losing its touch or is less of a place than it was two years ago, I think that's kind of ridiculous. They weren't going to be able to build a record breaking coaster every other year forever as they seemed to do during the 90's and early 2000's. The park is pretty mature from a rides perspective. If they rehab Mantis or remove it, I don't think that's indicative of anything except them trying to upgrade an attraction that they feel is somewhat less than world class. I have no doubt that whatever they do will leave the park with a better ride than they have now. A lot of what they've been doing lately is taking care of the things that were neglected during the Kinzel era - the Breakers remodel and the new front gate and POS systems are all examples of this. If it wasn't a new ride, Kinzel couldn't open the wallet - even if the people underneath him were telling him how desperately it was needed.

I think one of the worst additions in recent years was Planet Snoopy:

As a parent of young children I can tell you that going on rides with them can be an ordeal. You have to park a stroller. You have to wait in line. You have to entertain them in line. You have to buckle them in, repeat.

There are no rides in Planet Snoopy that can't be found in Camp Snoopy.

Solution:

Build a playground. It sounds simple, but it is so effective. Sometimes kids need to just waste their energy for awhile. My kids LOVE the playgrounds at both Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom. Also, Magic Kingdom and Dollywood both have multiple playgrounds park wide, always near a large attraction.

I would love a playground near Millennium, possibly right where Mantis' old entrance was. This allows parents to wait with smaller children and have something for them to do while the older kids ride with Mom or Dad. The parent waiting can just sit and watch. Every time I walk near Millennium the entire plaza is filled with parents with small children annoying the adults who are waiting for the big kids to exit the ride. Give them something to do!

MDOmnis said:
Too bad. I bet Europa decided to up their Advertising budget with Amusement Today to the point where it was more than CP's spend.

That's exactly what happened, and Matts not playing that game anymore. Wonder why CF was in tremendous debt now? It was partially the Paramount purchase, but also poor spending by a certain CEO.

MDOmnis said:
Too bad. I bet Europa decided to up their Advertising budget with Amusement Today to the point where it was more than CP's spend.

You know what? I'll buy that idea. You're absolutely right. As a small business owner I know firsthand how that game works.

My previous post wasn't entirely fair to the current CEO. He's only been in charge for a few years and has made some very positive changes. The shows are dramatically better. As someone who loves performance art I appreciate that.

Kinzel did give us Mean Streak, Mantis, and Disaster Transport. Gatekeeper is far superior to all of those.

I hope that something big is coming. I really do. But I do see the "someone else is buying more advertising" possibility as very, very real... That whole game is massively dirty.

I'm obviously not in the amusement industry, but I imagine it's similar to what I've encoutnered

Many, many things at CP are improved under Matt's vision and leadership and Jason's management. The park is a better park now than it was three years ago regardless of the Golden Ticket award. And if it's really important to them they could still say "Best Amusement Park in America" or "Voted Best Amusement Park in the World 16 Times". Either of those slogans would sound impressive to guests.

One thing to remember is that CP is a recipient of the Applause Award, which is a much more prestigious and important award then anything a magazine can come up with. Europa Park is also a recipient of that award.

I was at Europa on the 2002 ACE trip, and it was stunning then. Think Disney, Busch Williamsburg, Alton Towers, with great theming and good rides. And with what they've added since I'd love to go back.

The poll really is not reflective of anything pro or con around management. Opening up media events to anyone in any enthusiast club (and feeding all of those enthusiasts) is pretty much by definition playing the game.

Like I said, if AT wants me to take the Golden Tickets seriously, don't sell ads to the winners. Sure, they do it in every industry and its trade rags, but that's a journalistic line you don't cross if you want to be taken seriously.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:

Solution:

Build a playground. It sounds simple, but it is so effective. Sometimes kids need to just waste their energy for awhile. My kids LOVE the playgrounds at both Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom. Also, Magic Kingdom and Dollywood both have multiple playgrounds park wide, always near a large attraction.

I would love a playground near Millennium, possibly right where Mantis' old entrance was. This allows parents to wait with smaller children and have something for them to do while the older kids ride with Mom or Dad. The parent waiting can just sit and watch. Every time I walk near Millennium the entire plaza is filled with parents with small children annoying the adults who are waiting for the big kids to exit the ride. Give them something to do!

A playground would probably fit perfectly in the Ex-Giant Wheel location by Millennium.

My concerns about park management in recent years:

1) Rides/amenities becoming more disposable like at Disney. CP used to keep rides essentially forever in most cases. Now, with the removal of Wildcat, DT, Mantis (at least its trains... not to mention the standup at CW) and my favorite of all the pools at Breakers, I'm afraid that we are going to see attractions removed a lot more regularly like at the Disney parks. Instead, I'd rather they keep everything they possibly can, even if some things are less popular than others/than they used to be, and add new attractions elsewhere.

2) Less pushing of the envelope/Less of being known for the biggest/best of everything. From 1989 until Windseeker, you could count on CP to install the biggest and best version on the planet of a particular thrill ride. Then, they put in Windseeker instead of the 400' Funtime Starflyer that went to SFoT. That ride is exponentially better than the 300' Mondial swinger. Hope this doesn't become a trend. I'm not saying that they shouldn't focus on family and other attractions as well, just that when installing a thrill ride, install something better than what you can find anywhere else. That's why I come to CP every year all the way from Orlando- thrill rides better than anywhere else, plus the historic charm.

3) The replacement of unique food and drink establishments with national franchises. I can get a starbucks and a famous daves anywhere. Can't say that about the old tin-roof coffee shop and the old boathouse restaurant. And johnny rockets?!... don't get me started.

4) I'm concerned about losing the historical aspects of the park. This has been going on for a while, but I fear it is accelerating.

5) Deforestation.

6) Ugliness/Tackiness replacing the natural beauty of the park. The biggest offender I can think of is the painting of the slides at soak city those godawful tacky colors. A big part of what I loved about soak city was the natural beauty of the waterfront scenery and trees, which was complemented by the white flume/natural wood/blue-green trim of the waterpark. This was totally ruined by that hideous paint job.

7) Removal of thrill rides. I wonder how much of this is lawyerphobia? The worst case here is the removal of the speed slides, BY FAR my favorite part of soak city, and their replacement with that awful little thing in its place.

If these things do in fact become trends, then CP is not as good a park as it used to be. I wonder if others are sharing some of these concerns and if that had anything to do with the AT demotion.

Cedar Point definitely has changed since the Dick Kinzel era. And I agree with everyone else - it's the little things.
-The fact that we can now text a hotline when the bathrooms need attention
-Installation of a whole-park PA system
-NWS Weather Certifications
-New Front Gate to replace that god awful old gate
-Upgraded POS systems
-Matching other parks with amenities (Fast Lane, meal plans, etc)
- Recycling programs
- Newer advertising schemes
- More events for guests (Dollar Days, etc.)
- Lighting package upgrades park-wide (Need I explain more?)
- Live Entertainment boosts (Luminosity, Skeleton Crew, etc)
And the list goes on.

As for the Windseeker/StarFlyer debacle...
I think Windseeker already experiences enough downtime from high winds (even with solid steel supports). For some reason, I feel that the chained system of StarFlyers would be a nightmare for park maintenance and safety.

^^ I don't mean this to sound rude but I don't think you'll find a whole bunch of people who share or agree on those points (except for perhaps 3).

1)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6Z8D0EBGv4&t=1m31s

2) While I like new rides that push the envelope, I'm sure they're more than willing to go with what works well at other places or what's more viable for what they want to do.

3)Food will always be a low point in the park.

4)Sometimes, things just have to change. As sad as it may be, we all have to deal with it.

5) I still don't get this argument. I've never known Cedar Point to be this overgrown forest that so many claim it once was. But I've also never thought of it as this barren desert that some make it out to be. All I can say is, expansion requires sacrifice and sometimes trees just need to go.

6)I actually completely disagree with this. I think the repainting of the slides was a great move that I hope will carry to the other side of the park. I tend to associate bright vibrant colors with summer, swimming and the such. Looking at those slides the past 6 years really made the place feel stagnant and out of date. Especially considering how 99% of other waterpark slides look.
I was soo glad when they painted the slides since it made them more lively. Sorry but I don't want to admire the "scenic beauty" of a waterpark....I want to ride the fun slides. It's great if there's atmosphere but I wouldn't put that in the same category as being "scenic".

7) While the removal of the speed slides was unfortunate, they replaced it with something a family/group of people can enjoy all at once. Regardless of what the verdict is with us enthusiasts, it's a "no brainer" type of attraction at a water park imo.

It's obviously your opinion but I'm completely excited for the kinds of development that have been going on and what might be coming. I didn't grow up with CP like a lot of people did so I don't have a huge nostalgic link to the park. But those I know that do, seem to be excited for what's going on and what has happened. There will always be room for improvement and there will always be things that might not have been done in the absolute best way but I still think they're going in the right direction.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
I think one of the worst additions in recent years was Planet Snoopy:

As a parent of young children I can tell you that going on rides with them can be an ordeal. You have to park a stroller. You have to wait in line. You have to entertain them in line. You have to buckle them in, repeat.

There are no rides in Planet Snoopy that can't be found in Camp Snoopy.

Solution:

Build a playground. It sounds simple, but it is so effective. Sometimes kids need to just waste their energy for awhile. My kids LOVE the playgrounds at both Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom. Also, Magic Kingdom and Dollywood both have multiple playgrounds park wide, always near a large attraction.

I would love a playground near Millennium, possibly right where Mantis' old entrance was. This allows parents to wait with smaller children and have something for them to do while the older kids ride with Mom or Dad. The parent waiting can just sit and watch. Every time I walk near Millennium the entire plaza is filled with parents with small children annoying the adults who are waiting for the big kids to exit the ride. Give them something to do!

^^ This. Exactly this. My kids were so let down when Planet Snoopy replaced the playground. That left the hilly area inside the Snoopy Boutique as the only place to set the kids free for a little while, but now that's gone, too.

DA20Pilot said:
My concerns about park management in recent years:

1) Rides/amenities becoming more disposable like at Disney. ...I'd rather they keep everything they possibly can, even if some things are less popular than others/than they used to be, and add new attractions elsewhere.

What I take from what you're saying is that Cedar Point should keep less-popular rides and amenities that you like, rather than cater to what the majority of park guests want.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't focus on family and other attractions as well, just that when installing a thrill ride, install something better than what you can find anywhere else.

"Something better" is subjective. Your "better" and three random park guests "better" will not be the same "better". The company should develop Cedar Point in accordance with what will best satisfy Cedar Point's needs.

The replacement of unique food and drink establishments with national franchises.

As someone who makes sure to include a visit to Conneaut, Ohio's White Turkey Drive-In whenever I go to Cedar Point, I understand where you're coming from -- but there's a reason chains are popular: people know what to expect. I can't blame the park for bringing in chains. It makes many people more willing to spend money.... and that's why the company is in business, after all.

I'm concerned about losing the historical aspects of the park. This has been going on for a while, but I fear it is accelerating.

It's not accelerating; its been going on for decades. The Cedar Point you know and the Cedar Point of, say, 1932, are very different. Changing to meet the evolving needs of the parks audience is what has kept Cedar Point around for us to enjoy since 1870.

Removal of thrill rides. I wonder how much of this is lawyerphobia? The worst case here is the removal of the speed slides, BY FAR my favorite part of soak city, and their replacement with that awful little thing in its place.

It likely has less to do with "lawyerphobia" that with the company considering what will be more popular with most guests. You may not like "that awful little thing", but Cedar Fair probably wouldn't have installed "that...thing" without determining "that...thing" would appeal to the park's guests.

I wonder if others are sharing some of these concerns and if that had anything to do with the AT demotion.

Cedar Point does extensive guest research in order to understand what Cedar Point's guests enjoy and want. I believe that how the company's actions affect Cedar Point's standing in the Golden Ticket awards is an extremely low, if not non-existent, priority.

I don't know if this information from their Wikipedia page is accurate or not, but for the moment let's pretend that it is:

"In 1975, attendance reached 3 million for the first time."

Their attendance hasn't managed to get past 3.5 million in the last 15 years despite the addition of several "record breaking" coasters and other attractions. What has probably increased though are the ticket prices and guest spending.

Cedar Point could continue to add another $100 million worth of innovative, record breaking coasters but it likely wouldn't push their attendance much higher. It's a regional park that just happens to draw in people from around the world because of its reputation and collection of thrill rides. Other parks (including some owned by Cedar Fair) are in the process of trying to emulate what Cedar Point already has and CP seems to be more focused on trying to create a more well-rounded park. They want to capture as much of their guests' money as possible while they're at the park and that means catering more to certain demographics - including families.

In my opinion the level of coaster growth that CP experienced from 2000-2007 just isn't sustainable for a park of this size without development in other areas.