Cedar Point 2013

Nice find, Walt.

Yeah, on the way to the park Tuesday night, I stopped by my mom's house. She had cut it out and saved it for me, knowing I'd love it. :)

djDaemon said:

The park has two wooden coasters already. Using the "world class" modifier is subjective and silly. Lots of people seem to enjoy the wood coasters already offered. And as mentioned before, they place significant demand on maintenance resources.

I just don't buy the "significant demand on maintenance resources" card. If Holiday World and Knoebels can maintain their wood with smaller budgets, CP should be able to do the same. It's just a copout.

Holiday World and Knoebels don't have 80 other rides and attractions to keep running.

Maverick00 said:
Are you serious? Maybe Millennium is close to Superman at SFNE but not even close to Intimidator.

I'm not sure I exactly understand what you are saying -- we might be in agreement. Not trying to start a big coaster debate -- just saying that, in my opinion, SFNE Superman and Intimidator are better rides than Millennium for me. It all depends on your criteria, of course. I love airtime and intensity. SFNE Superman is an airtime machine compared to Millennium and Intimidator (at least in its original configuration) is incredibly intense and also has some decent airtime.

Again, Milllennium has some great things going for it, but I wouldn't say that airtime and intensity are its strongest attributes.

MaverickLaunch said:
Not calling you out here intentionally, but what is this statement based on? Actual interaction with the individual, or just word of mouth?

Both. I can show you all kinds of e-mail where he tried to threaten me because some kid on one of my sites was critical of him, and he wanted to sue me for it. I told him he needed to familiarize himself with the various safe harbor provisions that mean he can't do anything about it. But he was a persistent dick about it.

But there are a number of managers and executives around the industry who aren't shy about telling you they don't ever want to work with him again. It's not my place to say who they are. If you look collectively at the work a lot of other manufacturers have been getting (Premier Rides, Gerstlauer, Zierer, etc.), I think that's very telling.

^ Well hopefully they fire him right when I get out of college. Then I can apply for the job :)

...a world class woodie!

The park has two wooden coasters already. Using the "world class" modifier is subjective and silly. Lots of people seem to enjoy the wood coasters already offered. And as mentioned before, they place significant demand on maintenance resources.

I agree that this is one of the most glaring omissions in CP's lineup. In the past year I've taken rides on The Voyage, Raven, El Toro, Thunderhead, The Beast and Shivering Timbers, and neither of the woodies at CP hold a candle to any of these coasters. I don't think the term "world class" is something that should be discarded either, because most of the park's steel coasters can be, and are, considered to fall under that label. For wooden coaster enthusiasts, there just isn't a wow factor at the park. I enjoy Blue Streak a lot, but wouldn't put it high in the 're-rideability' category like those other woodies.

I think that's what sets SF: Great Adventure apart from CP at times

^ When Mean Streak opened I feel it was right up there. When it was smooth and before the trims at the first drop it had the speed and force to make it a great ride. Sadly that force did to much harm to the ride. People seem to forget how great of a coaster it was when it first opend.

djDaemon said:

Eh, the park already has 3 water rides. And those seem to only have long waits on the warmest, busiest days. While I wouldn't mind another water ride in the park, I'm not sure it's easy to justify from a business standpoint.

I was jokiing about the Aquatrax, but I have no doubt it would be the most popular of the water rides.

The park already has an observation tower, and there's no definitive word on whether it's being removed. If/when SS is removed, I suppose there could be a need.

The report seemed pretty legit to me.

From what I can tell, this coaster design is nothing more than a modern version of Mine Ride.

Is this a bad thing?

The park has two wooden coasters already. Using the "world class" modifier is subjective and silly. Lots of people seem to enjoy the wood coasters already offered. And as mentioned before, they place significant demand on maintenance resources.

What people? I've never waited in line for either coaster.

The report simply stated that they were considering removing SS. Granted, that probably means they're leaning toward tearing it out, but there's nothing definitive at this point.

And yes, I think having a duplicate of Mine Ride would be a waste of resources, when the park lacks in many areas, most notably in the family attraction category.

And BS and MS have lines during the peak(s) of the season.

If the U.S. Intamin guy is half as bad as Jeff suggests, then either Intamin executives aren't aware, they're incredibly stupid, or he's not being accurately portrayed. Anyone harming my business and sales would get the boot within a second.

Or the company simply has too big of an ego to care.

djDaemon said:
The report simply stated that they were considering removing SS. Granted, that probably means they're leaning toward tearing it out, but there's nothing definitive at this point.

And yes, I think having a duplicate of Mine Ride would be a waste of resources, when the park lacks in many areas, most notably in the family attraction category.

And BS and MS have lines during the peak(s) of the season.

I think we are in agreement with the first part. Everything is pointing towards SS being removed, and when that happens - Intamin has a potential replacement.

I think having a duplicate would be a waste of resources as well, but Intamin is more than capable of making a roller coaster that's unique. Again, I don't think Cedar Point goes straight back to Intamin, but it's a viable option.

Yeah, but are either popular rides? Very few people get off Mean Streak and say, "I love it!".

KevinL332 said:
^ When Mean Streak opened I feel it was right up there. When it was smooth and before the trims at the first drop it had the speed and force to make it a great ride. Sadly that force did to much harm to the ride. People seem to forget how great of a coaster it was when it first opend.

Sorry, I rode mean streak it's first season and I don't think it was ever great. Almost no air and pretty light thrills. It is great to look at, but even in its best running form it never compared to all the wooden coasters named above.

Well, at the time none of those coasters existed. As much as I loathe the Mean Streak experience today, it was a wooden home run when it debuted.

You can't pretend that we had El Toro, Voyage, and Thunderheads out there to compare it to when it opened.

Eh, to me it seems that the wooden coasters get overlooked or avoided often. Many people my age (teens) that I've talked to say that don't like them (pointing to Gemini half the time if we're in the park). Perhaps it's because they've never ridden anything besides the two at CP, or because they don't like the bumpy feeling.

I sorta doubt that a wooden coaster is high on the park's list of potential attractions. Not because they don't need one, but because many people ride the two there and conclude that steel coasters are much better and that the ol' wooden ones have nothing else to offer.

djDaemon said:

From what I can tell, this coaster design is nothing more than a modern version of Mine Ride.

Granted I've never been on Verbolten, but to me it doesn't really look too similar to Mine Ride. It looks more intense, plus Mine Ride doesn't have an indoor section and a freefall drop.

I go to Cedar Point with friends and I'll say something about them building a wooden coaster and they give me a look like they still build wooden roller coasters? Many people don't even know they build wooden roller coasters anymore. Especially since CP hasn't for 21 years.

^steel is the new deal :)