Cedar Point 2013

My guess is they'll hopefully try three trains, do it like Millenium Force, Station with loading train, and station before for unloading, one train on ride. Seems to work pretty well,. I don't think they would do a side by side double loading because it seems like it would take up so much room.

I know it has been discussed before, but I will never understand why Cedar Point (or really no other North American park outside of Six Flags NJ) will not purchase an Intamin pre-fab "woodie" like El Toro. That ride is simply outstandingly great, comparatively low maintenance, and would perfectly fit the bill for lakeside / beach ride coaster with a wooden profile. I think they are great value for the money, have tons of re-ride potential, and hold up well.

What gives on why these have not taken off in the US or elsewhere?

I suspect something like El Toro would be an absolute smash at Cedar Point and I would be shocked if it didn't have great longevity in terms of popularity over a Wing Coaster, which I suspect will end up being closer to Mantis than Raptor in terms of long-term interest.

My guess is that it will be as popular as Raptor for just as long, Stand up is completely different. I think it will be popular for a long time (Wing Rider), as long as it is done well, which I'm sure it will be. I also agree with you though in wanting an El Toro type coaster!

I would have to say that Raptor is still extremely popular being almost 20 years old. Being at the front of the park helps which is a luxury this new coaster will also have

I agree, and I also still love Raptor, I would head to it even if it were back where Mean Streak is, but I'm sure line would be shorter than it gets now.

DSRPUNK said:
My guess is that it will be as popular as Raptor for just as long, Stand up is completely different. I think it will be popular for a long time (Wing Rider), as long as it is done well, which I'm sure it will be. I also agree with you though in wanting an El Toro type coaster!

I hope so. Obviously, have to see the layout, but, given the general force limitations on this kind of train configuration / design, I think the intensity of it will necessarily have to be milder than Raptor, but it's probably unfair to think that it won't be more popular than Mantis (the reviews of Wild Eagle have been very good, but X-Flight reviews have been more mixed).

In any event, given Cedar Point's close relationship with Intamin over the years, I remain genuinely perplexed why they have not noticed the immense popularity of El Toro -- even woodie purists (like myself) have to acknowledge that El Toro is an unbelievably well-designed and fun ride. I can't think of a coaster with more intense air time.

Have any of you been on a wing coaster yet? I can't speak for everyone, but having been on X Flight, I'm not sure I want to go faster or taller on a ride like that. This isn't a design you can apply to hyper/giga coaster height.

The forces on the train are one thing, but the forces on the body (especially riding on the outside) could be downright uncomfortable.

So, if you want height and speed, I have a feeling you can have it - you're just not going to have tight turns or a ton of inversions. It'd be pretty "boring," as they say.

In my opinion, this wing coaster does not need a ton of inversions. I don't want it to repeat elements Raptor already has. I would be fine is this coaster has a couple big hills, overbanked/sideways track, maybe two unique inversions, and flat out speed. The concept itself is awesome, and it does not need a lot of "novelty" to make it better. I think if Cedar Point built a taller Wild Eagle, it would be too similar to the elements Raptor has. I want a layout truly original that the park does not have.

For myself I rode X at Magic Mountain, which is kind of a wing coaster, just with extra stuff obviously, it was pretty intense if I remember correctly, I loved it though. I can take the intense stuff but I know some people don't like it as much. I'm happy with whatever, but I do hope it is more like Wild Eagle than X Flight.

veritas55 said:
...I remain genuinely perplexed why they have not noticed the immense popularity of El Toro...

I could be wrong, but I'd bet that high maintenance demands of wood coasters plays a factor. CP struggles to get what rides they currently have open by opening day.

That's why you trade wood for wood. Get rid of Mean Streak and put in a new one. I'd prefer Gravity Group or GCI over a pre-fab Intamin though.

djDaemon said:

veritas55 said:
...I remain genuinely perplexed why they have not noticed the immense popularity of El Toro...

I could be wrong, but I'd bet that high maintenance demands of wood coasters plays a factor. CP struggles to get what rides they currently have open by opening day.

Yes, but those concerns aren't really applicable to the Intamin pre-fabs -- pretty much the only thing they have in common to a genuine woodie is the underlying wood support structure. The issues of track maintenance that coasters like Mean Streak and others deal with are, as I understand it, virtually non-existent with the Intamin model. The general public typically doesn't notice the difference and thinks it is a true wooden coaster.

So the dilemma remains: great ride experience, extreme popularity in those parks that have one, a huge reduction in maintenance costs compared to real woodies -- if I were Cedar Point General Manager (ha!) it would take me one ride on El Toro and about 15 minutes watching the general public's reaction to place an instant order on a copy of this ride. It must be the cost structure -- maybe they are overpriced?

TwistedWicker77 said:
I can't wait for it. It's going to be an awesome addition and I trust that Ouimet knows what he is doing. My goodness, it's the first coaster since 2007, quit your bitching! Until you've ridding a Wing Rider, please refrain.

Maverick is not the tallest and fastest coaster. It's 105 ft tall with a top speed of 70mph. It is one of my favorite coasters and I think it is because of the unique elements it offers. That's what makes a coaster good. We haven't even heard the official announcement let alone know what kind of elements it will offer

I agree with this 100%. Maverick blew away my expectations, and became my favorite roller coaster in the park.

This Wing Rider is 170 feet tall!! It's going to be the tallest (excluding Wild Eagle), fastest, and longest of it's kind. It sounds exactly like a roller coaster Cedar Point would bring in. It's going to be a completely different experience than anything else at the park, and I for one am extremely excited. Can't wait to get the actual press release!

Yes, but those concerns aren't really applicable to the Intamin pre-fabs - as I understand it, virtually non-existent with the Intamin model. The general public typically doesn't notice the difference and thinks it is a true wooden coaster.

We'll see how SFGAd's El Toro holds up. That being said, if I didn't already know Colossus in Germany was a pre-fab, I never would have guessed it. It was rideable. But, no where near the smoothness of El Toro.

net said:
In my opinion, this wing coaster does not need a ton of inversions. I don't want it to repeat elements Raptor already has. I would be fine is this coaster has a couple big hills, overbanked/sideways track, maybe two unique inversions, and flat out speed. The concept itself is awesome, and it does not need a lot of "novelty" to make it better. I think if Cedar Point built a taller Wild Eagle, it would be too similar to the elements Raptor has. I want a layout truly original that the park does not have.

+1 I agree with this completely and hope it comes true.

Jason Hammond said:
That's why you trade wood for wood. Get rid of Mean Streak and put in a new one. I'd prefer Gravity Group or GCI over a pre-fab Intamin though.

As would I. Though, given the amount of work done to MS, I doubt it's going anywhere in the next several years. But then again, if the reports are true that it's riding better now, maybe it makes sense to keep it around.

veritas55 said:
Yes, but those concerns aren't really applicable to the Intamin pre-fabs -- pretty much the only thing they have in common to a genuine woodie is the underlying wood support structure.

While it's true there's (supposedly) less maintenance required for the pre-fabs, the maintenance required is likely still far greater compared to most steel coasters.

In any event, I wouldn't count on any new Intamin anything at the park in the immediate future.

I know a coaster i want @ CP... it would be virtually free... its violent (im probably the only one here who supports this)...

Bring the villian over from geauga lake... its probabby falling apart but definitely restorable... i loved that ride it hurt so good

I believe that ride has already been scrapped. If not, it will not run again at another park.

djDaemon said:

In any event, I wouldn't count on any new Intamin anything at the park in the immediate future.

Any particular reason behind this?

Edit - I'm not expecting an Intamin anytime soon either, just wouldn't rule it out completely.

Jason Hammond said:

Yes, but those concerns aren't really applicable to the Intamin pre-fabs - as I understand it, virtually non-existent with the Intamin model. The general public typically doesn't notice the difference and thinks it is a true wooden coaster.

We'll see how SFGAd's El Toro holds up. That being said, if I didn't already know Colossus in Germany was a pre-fab, I never would have guessed it. It was rideable. But, no where near the smoothness of El Toro.

I think El Toro has been relatively problem free -- but I frankly don't know for sure (not my home park). Obviously, Cedar Point is not a big fan of any type of wooden coaster, and Mean Streak surely has not been confidence inspiring.