(Casinos) The second biggest little city in the world

That field next to Breakers Express would be a nice plot of land to build a casino on.

The value of casinos to a community is from the economic boost increased tourism would bring, not any tangible increase in school funding. And there is nothing wrong with that, it doesn't always have to be about the schools.

The problem with schools is more of a social problem than a funding problem. People would like to believe that schools can be fixed by throwing money at them, but I don't feel that is the case. Bad schools are bad because the kid's attitudes that attend them are bad, due to negative social conditions in the kid's lives at home.

I would love to see casinos in Ohio, both in Cleveland and Sandusky. The plan for Lorain looks good too. A Cedar Point casino, and the likely development that will spring up around it, will give Sandusky some much needed night time entertainment.

Given the number of people that stay there, you'd think that something like City Walk would be a no-brainer. Staying in town or on property is something that doesn't have as much appeal as it used to for me, because there's nothing to do after the park closes.

Slot machines are on the ballot here in South Florida tomorrow. We already have gaming in the form of Tribal Casinos. All that profit and the state doesn't get one dime. I'm all for legalizing some forms of gambling and then taxing the heck out of them.

People in Ohio are gambling now and the state doesn't get a dime. They are either going to Windsor or they are doing it online.

It is funny how government doesn't mind selling alchohol or cigarettes and they tax the pants of those folks but there is some inherent evil about gambling.

(Ahem) Lottery anyone?

I agree with Jeff that a venue similar to Universal's City Walk would be a smart addition to Sandusky. I've been to Universal several times, and love City Walk with all of its different and unique restaraunts and shops. Not only would this bring in tons of money, but it would give adults something to do at night and during the day if they don't want to spend that time in the park. Also, although it wouldn't be as festive and fun as in the summer, the venue could remain open year-round and give Castaway Bay guests additional incentive to stay there. Just a thought...

Yeah, I can deffinitely see a city walk style area somewhere outside the park. They could just shuttle hotel guests to it....I'm sure there are a few cool places to go in Sandusky but CP visitors don't know or care about them.....maybe they can move Margaritaville closer to the causeway as one of its eaterys.....When I was in Orlando at IOA, I think that City Walk was the ony place I could find with a real happy hour.

Margaritaville in Sandusky is a joke compared to a real Jimmy Buffett Margaritaville. It's just a run of the mill Mexican food joint with very average (if that) food. Nothing about the place reminds me of a Parrot Head Party, actually nothing about the place makes me want to come back.

A City Walk type place would be great with or without a casino. I've long thought that turning the west basin parking lot area, complete with boat docks, into an entertainment venue would be a great idea. Maybe even better would be the water front along the causeway from TGIFridays going all the way up to McDonalds. That would be a very scenic area, and it could tie in with Castaway Bay and any future casino development.

A place worth checking out this summer is Lyman Harbor, right on 1st street. They are building a new night club in the complex which will be pretty cool, judging from plans I've seen.

I was skeptical about the "Vegas Style" Casino's that opened in Detroit. I have to admit that I have seen the casino's do great job in Promoting Downtown, and cleaning up thier area of the city. I have not seen any negetive reasons for not having the casinos, except for maybe the support of Gambling addicts.

Even though we have the casinos so close to us (Detroit/Windsor), I still prefer the decadence of Vegas.

For one, NONE of the Indian, Detroit, or Windsor casinos provide free alchohol. The Indian casnos do not provide any money to the school systems. What is supposedly provided by the Detroit Casinos hasn't had much effect.

The table games are expensive. Very few tables at the $5 minimum, and what few there are (only during the day that we've seen) are so crowded you can't get a spot. Limits are raised after a certain time to take advantage of the night time crowds.

That said, if CP were to offer casino games, I guarantee my husband and I would give it a shot.

Jeff said:

TTD 120mph said:
...it's just that I dont approve of them being Christian and all.

What does that have to do with anything?

I dont know why I put it in there.
Dont worry, I deleted it from that post because yes I know it dosn't have to do with anything.

I'm not so sure a casino in Sandusky will help Cedar Point or hurt it. Casinos can suck money out of your wallet at an alarming rate.

Having said that, I have been to a casino the last 2 weekends. http://www.bluechip-casino.com/ I did well, I have 600 clams more than I had 2 weeks ago. But I did not spend one cent in Michigan City, other than what I spent in the casino. Would a casino in Sandusky draw from Cedar Point's cash grab? I dunno. It might actually hurt CP in the long run...Unless they became a casino operator...The house always wins.

MrScott
*** Edited 3/7/2005 9:16:27 PM UTC by MrScott***

When Casino Windsor announced a $324 million dollar expansion many people were angered because it is in many ways a waste of money. They say it will be Vegas style but really, people go to Vegas for their casinos they don't come to the Windsor-Detroit area to just to gamble. If people really want to go on a gambling vacation they will go to Vegas. I mean sure if people are in the area they may stop by the casino but people from say New York or Florida aren't going to say "Hey let's go to Windsor-Detroit to gamble", they will go to Vegas.

Jeff said:

Fastball84 said:
I think casinos would do wonders for Ohio schools which are in dire shape.

Throwing money at schools doesn't make them better. We have in Ohio a problem with building facilities, yes, and the funding system is broken, yes, but simply throwing money at schools won't fix anything.

Yeah, but I think some of the other pieces would fall into place if they have the money. The only thing in the world that can solve the high teacher student ratio is money. In Independence they had to shuffle teachers and kids halfway through the schoolyear. You know why? Money. I know the public school system is screwed up even without the money problems, but I truly believe that money is the main issue.

As for standerdized testing money does effect the way schools spend for you. I'm pretty lucky living in Brooklyn. They pulled me out of the testing review groups and stuck me in some real classes because of two things. 1) They had money to identify that I should have no problem passing the tests and that I could afford to miss the review groups. 2) They could pay the extra teacher to pull me out.

Because they could give me these things right now I'm on the fast track. I tested into college math and english courses as a Freshman in high school next year. If I wanted to I could take college courses at Tri-C next year (don't have a car, I'm 14, not taking a bus so there goes that) at the schools expense. All because the school could pay to pull me out. If every school could afford to do this America wouldn't look so dumb as it does know.

Just some general thoughts to people's posts.

Casino Windsor doesn’t have to worry about Ohio. They almost don’t have to worry about Detroit. They can’t even get hotel casinos up because of the lawsuit.

If tribes got their own land, it wouldn't matter what the governor or the state congress, or you think. It would officially be foreign soil (i.e. not Ohio anymore) and the tribes could do whatever they wanted there (Casinos). Of course, the government can keep them from getting the land to keep the casinos away.

I'm sure Cedar Point is aware of any profit ideas for the future and are ready for any changes in the law. Throwing a few video poker machines into the hotel is NOT building a Casino.

Religion is one of the major driving forces in our country today (sadly) and has EVERYTHING to do with a business that many feel is immoral.

A Citywalk type place would be cool and with Cedar Point’s recent drive to be a year-round attraction it would make sense. However… understand that Citywalk and Downtown Disney each have their own places that are most likely contracted exclusively to them. Don’t expect a Margaritaville.

On the other hand, if wasn’t covered (indoors) it would have almost no business in the winter. A city near me just built a second mall (across from the older one) except they built it all outside like in the style of California malls http://www.buildingphotos.com/shopping/fountain-walk.shtml . It works in Cali. and Florida. Not here. The problem is, no one comes in the winter and three years after opening only the magnet stores are occupied. They haven’t sold ANY of the smaller stores because there isn’t any business. They filed for bankruptcy a little while ago. I hope if Cedar Point ever did something like that they wouldn't fall into the same trap.

To MrScott, I'm assuming that CP would be the casino operator. Dick Kinzel stated in the Plain Dealer a few years ago that he wants a Sandusky casino run by Cedar Point, and even contributed money to a group trying to get the law changed.

And to Fastball, look at the Cleveland Public Schools, where they spend more money per student than most school districts. That should be enough of an example to show you that throwing money at schools is not a solution. And I think a lot of school systems waste money, they have to be smarter in using the money they have.

Legalizing casinos really wouldn't be to large a leap for Ohio. Ohio has had gambling at race tracks and through the lottery for a long time. And when we started mega millions a few years ago, didnt our republican state leadership have to approve the expansion to multi-state lottery gambling?

Edit: i know we didnt' start mega millions, i meant doing it in ohio
*** Edited 3/8/2005 2:06:30 AM UTC by Adernaline***

I think with the current legislature and governor, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that casinos will ever be legalized. Like I said, I have no strong opinions one way or another. I liked Windsor better before the casinos. Niagara Falls, on the other hand has benefited from the casino, but that's already a destination. I mean, look at the falls! If Sandusky had a casino, I would never go there. I'd rather go to Vegas.

Really, in terms of what CP can control and own, it just seems so ridiculously obvious that a City Walk-ish place would be a logical step. Look at Universal Orlando as a perfect case study. First there was Universal Studios, then Islands of Adventure and City Walk. There are also three hotels. They give you every reason to keep spending money after the park closes, and I can tell you from experience that we spend a hell of a lot more money there than we do in the parks (and not just because we stay on-property).

What happens when we stay at CP? We spend maybe $20 at Meijer for beer and snacks. That's a massive missed opportunity.

While I realize that there are certain concerns about maintaining a family atmosphere, I think it's still workable. How would I do it? I'd transform the part of the parking lot closest to Space Spiral (and what the hell, let's tear down Disaster Transport too as the biggest waste of waterfront property ever), and develop a "loop" there of restaurants, clubs and shops. Bus people in from the resorts on shuttles (or boats?) and you don't have drunk people driving around. Hell, charge other properties a fee for the privilege of bringing business to your door too.

A night-time adult oriented area on Point and in the city would be a smart move. If CF doesn't want to do it, someone else should. But the best would be like what Jeff said, something on-Point.

I don't know if it has improved the schools, but, i have heard about some counties in PA that have gambling and as a result no longer have property taxes. Now that's the kind of benefit i would like to see from casino gambling. The problem with the Ohio lottery is that too many hands are in the cookie jar now.
*** Edited 3/8/2005 5:10:25 AM UTC by gener***

The problem with an adult-oriented City Walk type of place is the kids. What do you do with them all? A high percentage of Point visitors...particularly those that stay in the Resorts...have children.

What do you do with them all? The number of babysitters required would be high. If you try to get all the kids to one location you would need the facility for one, trained staff, insurance, etc.

I really do like the idea but the obstacles are significant. I just don't know if there are enough "older" families or childless groups to make a go of it. I suspect that if the Point thought they could make a buck off it they would have done it already.

Fastball84 said:

If every school could afford to do this America wouldn't look so dumb as it does know.

I know how you intended it, but that just proved your point all in one sentence.

There are some districts that just plain don't have the money. There are also some that have the money but have no idea how to spend it so it is not used efficiently enough. The problem is, there are districts who have enough money and yet they still get more to spend and don't know what to do with it. Why do they get money, because they had enough in the first place to teach their kids so the kids could pass standardized tests. Legislature then thinks the money is being well spent and then the district gets more money that it doesn't need. Meanwhile, another district bombs its tests because it didn't have enough funds to teach the kids properly in the first place, and now they don't get money from the state.

It can ALL be traced to money, the problem is that the bad spending starts with the state legislatures and works its way down. Should district A not use those extra funds, they'd lose them, so they spend on stuff that may or may not be necessary for the education of our children. In reality, those funds SHOULD go to district B, however our trusty elected officials use standardized tests to determine where existing money is being used effectively, instead of finding where more money is needed. Its a bad system that's not going to change (unfortunately) because noone in the state congress will change it.

Much like our Federal Government, most school problems have more to do with how the money they have is SPENT rather than how much money they actually receive.

There is little accountability in most school boards. Down here in Florida our school board is notorious for spending way more than the value of land for school sites, only to turn around and sell the land for LESS than they bought it for. Ridiculous when they also preach that they need more funding in the same breath.