Boardwalk Project 2016

SteveH said:
I never understand why people makes comments like "we aren't talking Disney here". Walt went to his financial limits early on, and today the company has done what they dreamed.

CP is a seasonal park, so it's virtually guaranteed that their financial resources would never match Disney's.

True, CP is a seasonal park. However KBF and Castaway Bay aren't, and with the host of other parks in the CF chain, the overall financial resources are certainly considerable enough to develop in house talent and drive them way beyond purchasing all of their attractions and trying to integrate their offerings into something as unique as what Disney or Universal renders.

CF sees the potential of expansion into markets like water parks, challenge parks, and Dino upcharges. Why they don't take ownership of an area like the boardwalk in house and create some magic of their own is what holds them back from growing into what Disney and Universal have become.

NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Cedar Point, King's Island, Canada's Wonderland, Dorney, Valley Fair, Worlds of Fun and Michigan's Adventure are open 150 days or less. Carrowinds adds a few extra weekends, but still isn't open 200 days.

Disneyland, California Adventure, Disney World, Epcot, Disney Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom are all open 365.

CP would need a project to be 2.5 as profitable per day just to generate the same ROR as a Disney investment.

BTW, Cedar Fair has been divesting water parks not expanding into them.

This Boardwalk idea seems to have a life of its own ever since the rumor was started years ago. If anything happens along the beach walk it will be for amenities for the resorts, they are not going to put rides in that location. I don't get the appeal to the pier idea either, most amusement piers I've been to have been esthetically unappealing compared to land based amusement parks.

Keep the rides in the park and build a tiki bar on the beach and I'll be happy!

SteveH said:
True, CP is a seasonal park. However KBF and Castaway Bay aren't, and with the host of other parks in the CF chain, the overall financial resources...

Even if you weren't making an unsubstantiated claim there, it doesn't make good business sense to take money from one business to try and make another into something that's not sustainable on its own.

Are we really debating whether or not Cedar Fair, who made just over 1 billion dollars in 2012, can infest in the same style as Disney, who made 46 billion dollars in 2012. Heck, Expedition Everest cost 100 million in 2006 dollars...that's 16-20% of the 821 million Cedar Fair made that year.

Actually, we are debating why Cedar Fair lacks the ability to take on a challenge like a Boardwalk project. Since they can't buy one from B&M or Intamin - everyone makes excuses as to why they lack the development team within Cedar Fair to pull it off.
Disney operated from a garage, hocked just about everything he had, and kept the mantra "if you can dream it, you can do it". There is no reason, especially with Matt at the helm now - why Cedar Fair couldn't start with this sort of boardwalk project, and follow in Mr. Disney's footsteps.

I don't think the debate is if they have the ability to do a boardwalk project, because I think they clearly do. The question is if it's financially feasible to do it.

^^

Why didn't Walt dream about opening a park in a cold weather climate?

Actually, Walt Disney did have cold weather dreams for a similar facility and he was involved in the winter Olympics opening/closing festivities along with not one, but two projects that would be located in harsh weather locations. Ever hear about the Mineral King project? It was to be a winter sports facility that was ultimately shelved due to the politics controlling the land use (not his failed thinking), much like the park that was to be built outside of Washington DC to reflect our country and it's roots which also got shelved due to political red tape.

http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_chief1/b/jim_hill/archive/2003/05/26/176.aspx

Your proof of concept is two failed projects? Might want to work on those debate skills...

Neither project failed. They weren't built due to governmental red tape. Walt actually was awarded recognition for his plans for the Mineral King location, and the Olympic show ideas he initiated back in the 60's should be more than enough material to support the debate once you see what they have planned for Sochi next month.

So, your proof of concept is a pair of nonexistent parks. Still not convincing.

If Cedar Fair only wants to copy, clone, and purchase off the shelf third party products - I guess you need to cheat and take other people's successes and history as "proof of concept" so you can somehow pass off the resulting project "your own".
But, if they want to lead and create something special that hasn't been done before, it will only exist on paper today.
Just about everything Disney has done was trail blazing and didn't exist in reality until it was built. Universal learned a lot from Disney's model, and they are now generating exciting attractions from within that are making Disney in some ways having to play catch-up. CF needs to start somewhere - and the boardwalk could be the ideal place to do it.

Wasn't building the tallest roller-coaster, followed by the most roller-coasters the starting place?

Or should CP "cheat and take other people's successes and history as 'proof of concept'" by copying Disney? They could even call it "Paradise Pier."

What we don't need is...
https://www.knotts.com/boardwalk/what-s-new

Oh, wait - that Surfside Glider. Where have I seen that advertised recently? And that Pacific Scrambler - my that looks a lot like the Scrambler that has been at CP for years - but now with a spiffy "beach inspired" paintjob. How original and groundbreaking is that?

We might as well forget about this message thread entirely. CF has already done their standard lame incarnation of the "Paradise Pier" idea.

Why is it thought that CP even wants to build a boardwalk in the style that is being debated here? And what is original about that idea? You have ocean front boardwalks all over the east coast beaches.

My feeling is that CP knows the beach is prime real estate and whatever development will happen in the area will be amenities and entertainment for the resorts. That is not to say everyone can't enjoy whatever is built.

CP is really unique in the fact that this massive park and resort is built on what is virtually an island and the beach is actually the thing that started CP in the first place. I can't think of another park that has such a wonderful natural setting. I think they know that developing the beach area will increase the value of a resort stay if they give guests fun and interesting things to do, including some night life. Given the design talent, as demonstrated by Gatekeeper and the new main gate, I have no doubt that new resort development will be great, but I doubt very much they will create an east coast style boardwalk.

Dude? "Given the design talent, as demonstrated by Gatekeeper and the new main gate"? You have been drinking way too much in that boat of yours.

Have you never heard of Great America's X Flight?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Flight_(Six_Flags_Great_America)
B&M did the keyhole trick on that one way before CP.

Cedar Point's design team basically picked out the paint color on Gatekeeper.

Matt was the one that wanted a signature piece of architecture (similar to Disney's main street) when you entered the front gate.

Steve, I think the design of the main gate is very nice, clean and contemporary. I do know about the keyhole trick on the other B&Ms, but I think the way the keyholes, Gatekeeper and the main gate were designed and implemented is very, very nice. To each their own, but I think they did a great job with the main gate and I like the style of architecture used.

Ouimet did want a signature main gate and I think he got it, I never heard any comments that it was supposed to look like Disney's main street. If you have a source, please point me to it as I would be interested in reading it.

I like the front gate for the way it looks, it's def better than the old front gate, I don't think anyone wants that back.

Now my biggest peve with the front gate is getting people through the gate. They have the room and with how popular the front entrance was this year, it doesn't get people through as quick as I think they could.

Now another plus, the new season pass office for what I hear was absolutely incredible. I didn't have to deal with it I got my pass at KI last season before the park opened but I heard nothing but praise about it.