Anyone else SLIGHTLY dissapointed in STR?

We need another coaster more than we will need back (snoopy) to back (starlight) to back (STR) to back family attractions.

And I'm sure Cedar Point's abundance of roller coasters is the reason the parks attendance has been dropping, it obviously can't be the depression or unbelievable collapse in the Detroit/Flint/Cleveland economic areas.

Those economic problems are precisely why CP needs to focus less on teen-drawing coasters, and more on families, in my opinion.

Planet Snoopy is not a family attraction, as it caters almost exclusively to kids (that is, how many rides can everyone enjoy together?).

Starlight is definitely nice, but it's comparatively low-budget and not a draw in itself, and to call it a "family attraction" is somewhat of a stretch. I'd be shocked if Starlight is enough to make families want to visit, though it's a great example of the type of thing CP needs to focus more on - the experience through the gate.

That said, CP needs family-friendly stuff that draws people to the park, rather than stuff that simply enhances their visit once there. After all, if you can't get families through the gate, what's the point? This let's just keep building coasters "business plan" has not been working like it was in the 90's.

CP has 17 coasters! That's 3.5 metric ass loads, and more than enough to keep the kids (who, again, don't spend much money anyway) coming back. CP has established itself as the coaster mecca, so to speak, and that's something that will last a few years, even if they don't add a shiny new one to satiate teens.

While I sort of understand why Cedar Point with Shoot the Rapids I too am slightly disappointed. Disappointed in a completely self serving way that wants Cedar Point to always have the most coasters, the tallest coaster, the fastest coaster and all the other things that serve my own wants more than whats good for business. I'm definitely more excited about the Intimidators especially 305 than I am for Shoot the Rapids.
That being said I always try to be content with hoping that Cedar Point is doing is the smart thing and doing whats good for the future of the park.

I'm not disappointed in STR, I think I'll love it. Just sucks that even with yet another family attraction people are already harping and calling for another.

This park is supposed to be the 'roller coast', not some hybrid chuck e cheese.

Being "the roller coast" hasn't been working out so well, has it? I fail to see how decreasing attendance year-after-year is a sign that installing MORE COASTERZ!!! is working. Sure, it gave CP an identity, but now they simply need to expand what they offer.

And people are calling for more family rides because the park has so few. We don't even know what the height requirement will be for StR, so how can you claim it's a family ride?

Decreasing attendance has nothing to do with not having enough coasters. Flint, Detroit, Cleveland, and Canton are all in the top 9 most miserable cities according to Forbes. And what is literally in the middle of them all....Sandusky.

And I think it's getting to be a manner of 'some coasters' as opposed to 'more coasterz'. If Cedar Point doesn't add a coaster in 2011, which they probably won't given the STR addition, then it would be at least 2012, which would be the first time since, ever? they have taken 9 years to build 2 coasters.

That's a record I'm not happy they're breaking.

CP's decreasing attendance pre-dates the recent economic collapse of the region. In fact (and someone correct me if I'm wrong), the last coaster to produce a bump in attendance was MF... ten years ago. Why keep dumping money into a plan that simply isn't working?

I get it, Kyle - you love coasters. So do I. But I love the park more, and in order for the park to be successful over the long-term, they need to stop catering to teens, and cater to families.

And if CP puts in another coaster in 2012, it will have only been 5 years (not 9) since Maverick. That's not very long at all, especially considering Maverick didn't bring in a ton of extra guests.

You do make a point with regard to the regional difficulties, though it's the exact opposite of the point you're trying to make. If CP, which has more coasters than anyone else in the region, isn't faring well in the current economic climate, doesn't it make fiscal sense for CP to install moderately expensive (i.e. not coasters) attractions with the widest possible demographic in mind? The coasters that CP "lacks" don't really seem to fit that bill, so far as I can tell.

5 years since maverick, yes, but I stated 9 years to build 2 coasters. '04, '05, '06, and '07 for Maverick and '08, '09, '10, '11, and '12 for the hypothetical. Again, I think that would hold the record at the Point.

And I use the point of economic difficulties to explain the downfall in attendance, not in an arguement about coasters vs rides. The park still makes a nice profit.

The park is getting family attraction after family attraction, and Cedar Fair has an extensive budget as referenced by some other coasters being built. It'd be nice to see one pop up here without trying out your new approach of 1 coaster a decade.

It's only a record if you don't go back very far. Believe it or not, CP did exist prior to Magnum. ;)

Profit is irrelevant. Sure, they're still making a profit right now, but ignoring the trend of falling attendance (a trend that goes back almost 10 years, long before the region became so economically volatile) would not be prudent at all. That exhibits absolutely no foresight and/or adaptability (a "business plan" which, I'd argue, has Kinzel's name all over it).

You keep saying CP is getting all these family attractions, but I simply don't see it. Yeah, they added Planet Snoopy, which is arguably not even that family friendly. What else have they added? Starlight Experience isn't an attraction so much as it's something you experience once in the park. That is, I doubt people are driving in from Flint to see it.

And I never suggested anything remotely resembling "one coaster per decade", but whatever.

I went all the way back to blue streak, and I don't see a period of time matching this record breaking drought. 9 years, 2 coasters.

Profit is everything. The fact that Cedar Point is making a profit in this crisis proves they must be doing something right.

And if you don't think they should add a coaster in '11, '12, or '13 then you most certainly are suggesting something 'remotely resembling' one coaster per decade. '04 - '13 = 1 coaster.

And, believe it or not, the park did exist prior to Blue Streak. But I get your point - its uncharacteristic of CP to go so long between coasters. But so what? That plan has not been working! That is, doing what you suggest has not been helping attendance. Hell, that "plan" isn't even keeping the status quo. Why continue a business plan that simply is not working? There's absolutely no sense or logic in what you're suggesting, unless I'm missing something or ignoring some data you're basing your opinion on.

And just because they're profitable right now does not mean they'll be profitable next week, next year or into the next decade. In fact, looking at the trend of falling attendance combined with rising per caps, it seems likely that if they continue to operate as they have been, they'll not be profitable in the long-term. After all, CP cannot just keep upping the price for hamburgers year after year to compensate for the fact that coasters are no longer bringing people through the gates like they used to.

You say the plan has not been working, what plan? They haven't been adding coasters, that's my whole point!

If anything I see more direct correlation between the last 8 or 9 year drought from coasters and the dip in attendance. At least more so than you barking about how adding coasters isn't working, when they haven't been adding coasters.

An "8 or 9 year drought"? Kyle, most people would kill to have their home park install coasters like CP does:

2000: Millennium Force ($25M)
2002: Wicked Twister ($9M)
2003: Top Thrill Dragster ($25M)
2007: Maverick ($21M)

If installing 4 World-class coasters to the tune of $80 MILLION is a "drought", then I'd suggest that nothing they do could ever please you or the other teenagers out there.

They've built 4 coaster in the last 10 years, 3 of which provided no meaningful help to attendance. Put another way, CP has spent an average of $8,000,000 a year catering almost exclusively to teens*, and the park is not much better off for having done that. Attendance keeps falling.

So what are you basing your "coasters == success" theory on? I simply don't see any data that supports such a premise.

*For perspective, Planet Snoopy cost a mere $2.2 million. Imagine what they could do with $4 million for family attractions! Or even $8 million!

All of that is irrelevant as I'm referring to the '04 to '13 drought you are begging for.

And Cedar Point has been building world class coasters for several decades, I'm hoping they keep it that way.

for perspective, 3 world class in 4 years ('00 to '03) vs 1 in 10 years ('04 to '13)

Oh, it's irrelevant. I see. I guess that means you proved your point!

;)

Michigan and Ohio's economic problems started longer than 10 years ago. I never knew that only teens rode coasters. What is the appeal of dark rides? At this point, I think CP needs to consider how much the region will support $25 million rides of any kind though.

As for the subject of this thread, I am disappointed in STR and I don't need to ride it to make that determination. No interest in a water ride. And I suspect that there are a lot of folks who had no need to ride MF, Maverick, TTD, etc. to determine they didn't like them. To the extent it takes folks out of the lines of the rides I do want to ride, that is fine with me though.

^^^^ actually, DJ, since there will be no new coaster in 2010 it will be 4 coasters in 11 years, and 2 in 9 years.

Other than a dark ride--and CP has built 0 of those in 11 years--what kind of family ride would you suggest? There simply are damn few of anything that appeals to 5 year olds & 15 year olds, let alone 15 year olds and 50 year olds.

Building a ride that appeals to 5 year olds is tricky business--by the time they are 7 or 8 they want to go on the big rides. And if STR has a 46 inch requirement 7 year olds should qualify. I assume the park's thinking is that STR will keep the 7 year olds' attention (and wallets) through their teen years and on into middle age.

The difference is you want something for a five year old and I would argue that something for 7 year olds & up qualifies as a "family" ride. Again, other than a dark ride (which we agree is needed) what type of "family" ride would you put in? CP already has a Woodstock Express & an Iron Dragon and a Thunder Canyon.

I have to say that I think there is no such thing as a family friendly ride. I really consider STR a thrill ride because SRF is the same height. A dark ride can be family friendly but teens do not want to go on a snoopy themed dark ride as vice versa for little children who wouldn't want to go on a lout noise pirate ride. A family family attraction should be something that caters to everyone. Cedar Point is not extremely well known for being a family friendly Idlewild type park. The park is known for its collection of thrill rides and roller coasters.

STR probably will not appeal to little kids because the height requirement will be at least 46-48 inches (i am leaning towards 48" because that is what SRF is). STR will also be to much of a soaker like SRF and even Thunder Canyon. Most 4-8 year olds will be scared of the big waves hitting them i think because i really never see someone who is below 9 or 10 go on Snake River Falls.

I thought making a log flume themed to be a camp ride in camp snoopy w/ canoe style boats would have been a great idea because: Camp Snoopy must be the most family friendly spot in the park, log flumes are a HUGE hit with every one, and it can have some camp snoopy theme to it.

coolkid2345 said:
A dark ride can be family friendly but teens do not want to go on a snoopy themed dark ride as vice versa for little children who wouldn't want to go on a lout noise pirate ride.

I hate to tell you, but there was a lot of people at my school (not amusement park freaks like us) who went to Kings Island just for the Scooby Doo dark ride. I know I haven't been to Kings Island since 1998 before this year. After my visit at the start of the season guess what made me come back 8 more times last year....Scooby Doo. Not Beast nor Diamondback, but the Scooby Doo dark ride.

Know why? Because its different from anything at Cedar Point. Its fun, interactive, great theme (even better when its working) and air conditioned. I know we weren't planning on going back, but after they released the news that Scooby was leaving we made it back 2 more times.

Dark rides attract every age group. 5 year olds like to look at scooby/snoopy. 15 year olds like to shoot at targets and deep down they like scooby too ;) and the parents and grandparents like the air conditioning and watching their kids and grandkids have fun.

The Grandparents dont have to sit and watch from a park bench either. They can actually ride with their family if they want, and dark rides provide them something to do without going 100MPH or almost throwing up.

More than "anything", I am interested in the theming and special effects that they may consider adding to make it eclectic and unique- but following through with the Frontier Trail theming.

There is great opportunity in the tunnels (fog, noise, lighting, etc.) as well as the bottom of the hills, the queue lines, etc. I totally believe they should focus on the intensity of the theming 100%.