A ride that CP doesn't have & you wish it would...

Kevin, I understand where you are coming from and a Firechaser Express type ride would be fun, I just think there are other types of family rides that should be installed first to round out the ride package at CP. If comparing to Busch Gardens Williamsburg like Urumqi did, The Curse of DarKastle would be something I would like to see before they put in a family coaster.

Urumqi, I'm not convinced that a GCI wood coaster like InvadR would have a 46" height requirement at CP instead of a 48" requirement. Mystic Timbers and InvadR are very similar, yes InvadR is smaller and not as good of a ride but both rides use the Millennium Flyer trains which I think is key as I'm pretty sure height requirements are set by the restraint type. I would bet if InvadR was at CP it would have a 48" height requirement. Remember, they even increased the height requirement on Iron Dragon from 46" to 48". Iron Dragon is a pretty decent family coaster in my opinion.

As far as family attractions, or the aforementioned lack of, I think Mr. Ouimet exercised great judgement in rounding out the other options the park has for families. The beach is now a huge attraction for people of all ages, the activities out there are very well rounded. The pools are much more child friendly, which also made the other areas of the pools better for adults. CP Shores needed it's renovation sorely and provides a much better experience. The park has a ton of stuff to offer families now that was unheard of a few years ago, and the accommodations if you're staying on-point are extremely more well-suited.

I highly doubt adding one or two 'family' coasters would have the effect of drawing families anymore than the stuff they've already done. If the park is lacking a true 'family' coaster, would adding one to the mix seriously get a family to change their mind on where to vacation. While I do believe it would be a great addition and would round out the current offerings, I think the hotel/beach/waterpark focus is much more suited to bring in a varied age group.

I don't think adding one attraction to the mix suddenly transforms everything. It would take a larger commitment to truly be family friendly. The beach, pools and CP Shores, do little to nothing for the perception or reality that the amusement park itself doesn't welcome families.

Pete hit on one of the key issues, CP's height requirements versus other parks. All of these at Disney World can be ridden by guests under 48 inches tall, but accommodate adults well/

Barnstormer -- 35 inches
Seven Dwarfs Mine Train -- 38 inches
Kali River Rapids -- 38 inches
Big Thunder Mountain -- 40 inches
Splash Mountain -- 40 inches
Test Track -- 40 inches
Tower of Terror -- 40 inches
Soarin' -- 40 inches
Dinosaur -- 40 inches
Mission: SPACE -- 40 inches
Star Tours -- 40 inches
Space Mountain -- 44 inches
Avatar Flight of Passage -- 44 inches
Expedition Everest -- 44 inches

So, is Cedar Creek Mine Ride that much more intense than Big Thunder Mountain? Space Mountain? Everest?

This is why Cedar Fair is giving away passes for the 3-6 year old crowd, while Disney charges $6 less for a 3 year old than the full adult price for a one day ticket.

I'm sure coming from Disneyland & Disney Cruiselines that Mr. Ouimet gets that CP is not Disney, nor should it try to be. If there was anyone that could see if there was value in trying to make CP Disney-eque, it would be him.

Pete said:

Kevin, I understand where you are coming from and a Firechaser Express type ride would be fun, I just think there are other types of family rides that should be installed first to round out the ride package at CP. If comparing to Busch Gardens Williamsburg like Urumqi did, The Curse of DarKastle would be something I would like to see before they put in a family coaster.

I completely agree. In fact, of any type of ride that could be installed, I think a high-quality dark ride would have the biggest impact.

Let me just say this; I completely agree that one family coaster would not make a huge impact in terms of bringing more families in (is that even a problem they have)? Nor would one dark ride. Or one log flume.

For someone like myself, it does not seem like that long ago that the park's lineup was simply more balanced. You had world-class thrills alongside family-friendly rides and attractions. Over the past decade, more and more of those attractions have simply faded away.

I welcome change, though, and I love Cedar Point's roller-coaster lineup. I can't wait for Steel Vengeance and I expect and look forward to more coasters to come. Keep pushing the envelope.

On the same token, it does not seem like it would take much to give the family-friendly void a shot in the arm. I don't ever expect CP to be DIsney, nor do I want it to be. That said, imagine the park (from the perspective of a family with people of multiple heights and ages) with, say, a fun dark ride (a la the old Pirate Ride) and something along the lines of a fun family coaster.

I'm not sure what else is truly missing from the park.

Kevinj said:

...I completely agree. In fact, of any type of ride that could be installed, I think a high-quality dark ride would have the biggest impact....

Yes. Talk to anyone that has been to Universal Orlando (including myself last year). The park is comprised of .....90% dark rides. No joking. While I get that its a year round park, it amazes me the attendance numbers this park does for not having but 1 or 2 average coasters. I don't expect CP to invest $50m in a family dark ride but I don't think $20-$25m for one is out of the question. It certainly would be a welcome addition to round out the park's lineup, fill in the gap for some of those family attractions that we lost over the last decade and also might be a nice relief from the heat during the hot summer months. Just my .02

It’s best to see movies in the dark.

I don't even know how Woodstock could be considered a "family" coaster, I couldn't even buckle the seat belt with me riding in it alone, I couldn't imagine trying to ride it with a kid. And I'm size 38 waist.

XS NightClub said:

I highly doubt adding one or two 'family' coasters would have the effect of drawing families anymore than the stuff they've already done. If the park is lacking a true 'family' coaster, would adding one to the mix seriously get a family to change their mind on where to vacation.

True, but that can also be said for the stuff on the beach, or the water park improvements. Those improvements alone aren't going to draw families.

But a large assortment of varied attractions including family-oriented coasters most certainly would. I speak from experience - we're more interested in revisiting Holiday World than we are CP at this point. And I think the point about the park giving free admission to young children is a valid one. Why does the park need to give away some of the gate for families with young kids?

And the park having "a ton" more stuff for families as compared to a few years ago is a hilariously low bar. They've obviously improved, but there's a ways to go yet to get back to something resembling the balance struck back in the 70's and 80's.

I will add that as a family we stopped getting passes for about 4 years as our younger kids grew up. I got to be tiring to have to split the family up to ride. The older kids get bored of the kiddy areas after a ride or two and want to do something bigger, but aren't old enough to go alone. Got to be a major pain. We did not have that issue once at Disney with kids from 3-9 at the time. I don't expect them to add a bunch of family stuff but changes could be made to rides to make them more family friendly, Mine Ride for example. Larger seats and restraints to actually fit an adult and lower the height to say 40" with adult.

We did the exact same thing. This past year was the first year we had Platinum Passes and truly frequented the park in years; when both our girls were little we said adieu and did the Disney thing for a stretch. We still did a brief visit in the Spring, but that was it.

From our perspective, there was just nothing appealing about making Cedar Point our family destination or vacation focal point during those years.

Parent swap gets old, real fast.

I guess we figured it out even with a 6 year age gap between the kids. They always had fun and wanted to return to the park which in turn meant that mom and dad had fun right along beside them.

djDaemon said:
I speak from experience - we're more interested in revisiting Holiday World than we are CP at this point.

Its been several years since I have been to Holiday World so I admit that I had to look at their website to refresh my memory as to what rides they have. Tossing out the water park options, other than their log ride and their dark shooting gallery, I do not see that HW has anything more to offer than CP with regards to family rides. What else do they offer that attracts you to HW over CP?

Don't get me wrong our kids still had a blast, and still ask to go back every summer. We were not able to go this year, but are planning on passes again next year now that my youngest is approaching 52".

We always make the best of the day. Been there on the busiest days and still were able to have fun.

But as Kevinj said parent swap gets old fast.

^^At Holiday World it seems the water park is as much the main attraction, if not more than as their dry park. The scale and capital invested is much larger than CPS, plus almost everything is family friendly. Their attractions are centered around family raft rides and soon a 3rd wave pool to add even more variety. Even the world class water coasters are at 42". Plus it's included with the gate.

XS NightClub said:

I'm sure coming from Disneyland & Disney Cruiselines that Mr. Ouimet gets that CP is not Disney, nor should it try to be. If there was anyone that could see if there was value in trying to make CP Disney-eque, it would be him.

I was never trying to imply Cedar Point should try to become Disney. I was just illustrating the gap between what Cedar Point and a truly family-friendly park have. My last sentence is essentially saying that Cedar Fair fully understands the perceived value of their parks for those with younger children and have moved to charge accordingly.

What’s wrong with Cedar Point being a family park for families with older (taller) kids? Not every family friendly park needs to cater to families with kids who are 3 or 4 years old. There are plenty of families with kids 48” and above, at which time there is a plethora of options. At the rate in which true family rides are disappearing from Cedar Point (Paddlewheel, Space Spiral, Disaster Transport, Wildcat, just within the last 5-6 years), and very little in the way of replacements, I just think that maybe the market data that has been collected is showing that there won’t be a huge ROI if they were to start installing family rides left and right. I have trouble believing that if the market data showed that’s what guests wanted, that the park would choose not to appease them. Still, I’d love nothing more than a true log flume/dark ride to be added to the old STR spot.

I wonder the logic behind that though since CP is a resort experience and they should go after the very young family market to sell more hotel rooms. With the resurrection of the beach, CPS and the renovated Breakers, it makes for a compelling vacation experience. If they had as many large family rides as they used to in the 70's and 80s it would make it even more so without diluting the experience for the guests going there for the coasters.

Also, it's not a bad idea to hook kids when they are very young so that they crave going to CP for a lifetime. When I was a little kid my family stayed at Breakers every year. I remember a lady my mom was friends with who also stayed at Breakers and she said she gave her kids a choice of Disney or CP, they always picked CP. Getting kids hooked early has proven very successful for other businesses like McDonald's where the Happy Meals and Ronald McDonald are designed to do exactly that.

Okay, this is kind of off subject, but what about also changing up the food? Including more healthy options as well?

Healthy options typically have relatively high cost and short shelf life.

They are also less appealing on a large scale. People tend to buy the "fair" food at a much higher rate in the entertainment world. Lots of places have tried it, and lots of places have determined it's not worth the effort.