6 Train Operation

Huh?

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-Adam Carolla is GOD
-*Perturbed at the world*
-No good deed goes unpunished- Ben Franklin

For the lame who say "huh:"

Dave basically said that nothing should ever stop moving on TTD. The launch sled should take almost zero time to reset and move back to launch (getting back to the launch position just as the next train gets there), trains should dispatch and move as soon as they possibly can. Otherwise the perfect interval will never happen.

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- John, who is worried because he is beginning to be able to translate Ridemanese into English.
I Snap Flyers
*** This post was edited by Michael Darling 9/20/2003 11:38:35 PM ***

I have a feeling that if the launch sled were to continuously move back and forth, we'd have even more heating issues than there already are.

And about the buffer block- theres sure as heck wasn't one there when I rode, whenever they brought the trains out of the station onto the launch and staging area, they hadto sit there and wait for the other 3 trains to move along into the load/unload stations. But then again, that was back in May, they didn't even have correct blockign back then, it looked like everytime they came up on the single train they hadto clear blocks, over and over.
*** This post was edited by Josh B 9/22/2003 2:42:03 PM ***

Being there last Sunday, and timing the interval, we were seeing 5 intervals of 58 then an interval or more, 1:16 or more. It makes me wonder if the blocking is still setup for 6 train operation - the ride was expecting a train to be somewhere it's not.

If the ride were still setup for 6, you'd see one train being moved into load and launch by itself rather than in pairs.

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Scott W. Short
mailto:scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com

If it's not broke, don't fix it!

Top Thrill doesn't really have the need for #6 train right now. The line is flying and intervals are improving more and more with every day of operation. There is never a time where Load 2 has to wait for a train from Unload so there is no time being lost. Adding #6 train to the mix right now would cause nothing but hassles.

Don't you think that Park Ops, Maint., and Intamin are a little better at running a coaster than we are? Let the people who know what they're doing decide if #6 needs to run or not- even though anybody with 3/4 of a brain could tell you that it's not going to help right now.

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- John
I Snap Flyers

ShiveringTim said:
If the ride were still setup for 6, you'd see one train being moved into load and launch by itself rather than in pairs.

Not necessarily. Having done a little bit of PLC programming, I suspect there isn't just one variable that indicates the number of trains operating.

That being said, there are a number of places the number of trains operating would have to be taken into consideration. One is the loading process. Another is the general blocking setup.

What I have noticed is that most of the time, as soon as the second train launched hits the saftey block, it will advance the next 2 to the load area. It seems like the last group waits for the train to hit the unload area before advancing 2 to the load, taking 10 or so seconds longer.

Jason

From all the prox sensors on the ride, I think the ride can be divided into many more blocks and have the trains move closely together simultaneously. In other words, you may have load 1 and load 2, but the trains should be able to follow each other close enough that the back of one train can be in load 2, while the front of the next train is also in load 2. It's not set up like that now, but I'm guessing that it is the goal.

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I'd rather be in my boat with a drink on the rocks,
than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.

RideMan said:
The other thing that needs to happen is that the launch system needs to start rewinding immediately after it stops, because until the launch sled resets, no train is launching anywhere. In fact, the launch sled should reset right about when the train ahead reaches the safety brake, if not earlier. That way, as soon as the brake is clear, the next train can launch.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Do we know if that is possible with the way it is setup now? I thought the sled could not go back before it knew there was going to be no rollback. When the train does rollback the sled waits till it is around halfway back or near the hydraulic building to go back. I am wondering if it is that way because of programming or it will damage the train if it goes back before the train. The yellow train being sent back before the season comes to mind here. Because I thought it rolled back and the sled started rolling back before the train, thus damaging the train. Or was it some other reason?

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"This second hill is my favorite part of the ride. It is so Cool!"
TTD Status: "Contaminates in the system" S.K. Per my conversation
"Hey Werewolf lady"

The sled's pin that grabs the train is automatically reset (lowered) via a sensor when it reaches the far end of the launch track. So, if I understand how the system works correctly, there is no possibility of causing damage to the train if it were to pass back over the top of the sled during a rollback. (And that is exactly what it does as the sled never drops below the track or anything of that nature...so even when it is sitting idle after a launch it is no further away from making contact with the bottom of the train as it would be if moving back toward the station.)

As for the yellow train, anything that might have happened during the preseason wasn't caused by the sled's engaging device.

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James Draeger

Ah, there's the clarification I needed, I didn't know the pin dropped down. I thought the whole sled dropped below the top of the launch track when it reached the hydraulic building. Nevermind.

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"This second hill is my favorite part of the ride. It is so Cool!"
TTD Status: "Contaminates in the system" S.K. Per my conversation
"Hey Werewolf lady"

Actually, James, the patent drawing (and your experience) notwithstanding, as I understand it from my own observations, the sled just has a slot down the middle. The pin is, in fact, set up as a clutch on the bottom of the train. With the train sitting in the staging area, you can look under the third car, just ahead of the fourth axle, and see a slot in the car's center beam. On either side of that slot is a metal canister which I am guessing houses not only the electrical contacts but perhaps also the mechanism that retracts the engaging pin from the bottom of the train. I think I have some photos here...
Here's a shot of the slot and the canister under the train...
In this shot you can see the long slot in the launch sled

Anyway, in that second photo you can see electrical contacts on either side of the sled. I think what happens here is that the pin is dropped electrically, then the train is rolled back a foot or so until the pin jams against the back of the slot in the sled. That prevents the pin from disengaging when the power is dropped. The sled pushes the train, and as soon as the train out-runs the sled, the pin slides right out of the slot just as any chain clutch would. Free of the sled, the pin retracts into the bottom of the train, and in fact, if you are sitting in the back of the third car, you can hear the pin hit the floor pan as it releases.

I'm guessing that the pin is spring loaded. If the rumor about pre-season problems is true (and I have no idea whether it is), it could be that it was originally counterweighted and somebody forgot that coming backward through the curve at the bottom of the hill would put a downward force on the pin that could pull it out of the slot. But that's only a guess on my part, and probably not a very accurate one. :)

Again, the reason for completely retracting the pin instead of using a standard chain clutch is to make sure that it can't re-engage on a rollback. That could be messy.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Michael Darling said:

Don't you think that Park Ops, Maint., and Intamin are a little better at running a coaster than we are? Let the people who know what they're doing decide if #6 needs to run or not- even though anybody with 3/4 of a brain could tell you that it's not going to help right now.

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- John
I Snap Flyers

I am not saying that park ops or Intamin do not know what they are doing, but anybody with 3/4 of a brain would not spend an extra $1,000,000 for a train that they don't need.

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Beer and golf Thursday thru Monday, Cedar Point & beer, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Interesting hypothesis Dave...

I want to think that you are correct in that the pin is actually on the bottom of the train. One of the things I wanted to do, but was never able to, was climb around under Dragster's trains and see for myself what was going on. So what I have to offer is only what I have learned from co-workers.

What I do know is that the pin is moved into place via electricity when it is time to launch a train. As the train reaches the end of the launch track that pin is then retracted so as to allow backward movement in the case of a rollback. I believe that the pin may be returned the retracted state not by springs, but rather by magnets...something along the lines of, but not the same as, how the safety dog is forced down on MF.

But like I said before, anything that may have happened preseason had nothing to do with the engaging device on either the sled or the train.

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James Draeger
*** This post was edited by Draegs 9/25/2003 11:27:56 AM ***

Dragster was running 6 trains on Friday, October 17th...

It was also running 6 trains on Saturday, the 18th for the majority of the morning. However it did go down sometime in the afternoon and one was removed.

It was running 7 pretty much all night friday. On saturday,they took I think it was purple off because it just kept rolling back. They were also only loading 10 passengers for a few hours saturday afternoon because of continued rollbacks related to the wind. By nightfall,the trains were full again.

7??? Wow! ;)

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Steve Sergent
MF: 257
TTD: 98 + 3 Rollbacks

7? someone miscounted... or is it the ghost of that one that went into Lake Erie showing up in time for holloweekends? ;)

I just needed to say that

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TTD: 6 (Rollbacks seen: 24)
MF: 20
WT: 9

Wow, Not too long ago we were only running 5. But now 7?. Woah. heh.

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- Dennis
When I die, They'll read this And say a genius wrote it.
2003 Count - TTD: 3 MF:18 WT: 30+
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