6 Train Operation

At this point, that is true. But fixing the mechanism would solve the launch reset problem, which could potentially shave another fifteen seconds off the interval. That would require an additional train to keep the load stations from running out of trains!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Doesn't running only 5 trains also save money on maintanance? Since one train is rotated out every day (as I would assume), wouldn't that mean a little less wear and tear?

Less wear and tear means lower maintanance costs. Lower maintanance costs mean more money for other things.

-Sam

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Avalanche Run - My first Roller Coaster.
Magnum XL-200 - The BEST Roller Coaster!

I can't imagine the savings of maintenance being close to the cost of the train itself for at least 10 years.

There would have only been 23 days that each train would have not been running for all of 2003. For $1,000,000 per train, the largest expense, I assume, would be for the wheels.

Unless Intamin gives CP something back for the 6th not working, I would have to think CP got screwed.

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Beer and golf Thursday thru Monday, Cedar Point & beer, Tuesday and Wednesday.

I'm not convinced the sixth train would make a difference if they were hitting interval. It's not critical to ever have two trains in unload, only load, so if they can always keep two trains in the load station, I think you're good to go. Like Dave said though, we couldn't really know until they get the launch interval down to where it needs to be.

As for wheels, they're more durable than they used to be. Jasper mentioned on a construction tour last winter that they were really comfortable with the material being used right now, and as a bonus, use the same wheels on Dragster, Wicked Twister and Millennium Force.

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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - My Blog
Blogs, photo albums - CampusFish
What time does the water show start?

I noticed the color of the linings are different

Red is evil.
Orange is what dragster uses, seems good to me.
Grey load wheels, purple guide and upstops on MF in 2003? Another train shows all purple linings.

Interesting...

As for TTD running 6 trains, improvements will need to be made. The block needs to be cleared faster, which doesn't seem possible to me.

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Eddy the retard is awesome.

Having six trains would help somewhat simply because usually we are waiting for people to get out of the train in unload. The first train that launches is the train that pulls into the second unload station and that takes quite awhile to park and be unloaded. The hydraulics really are not slowing us down, they are usually ready before we are, it's the unload station, and occassionally the load station. If we had that extra train, unload would never be slowing us down because both trains would pull into unload about the same time. Basically what that means is when they get the ride ready for six trains, the crew on load will have to work even harder if we'd like to hit interval because that will be all that's holding us back.

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Brent Haley
Gemini Crew '02
Top Thrill Dragster Crew '03

The road wheels used between the three Intamin rides are actually different sizes. While the overall diameter is the same, the diamater of the actual steel wheel is different. MF and WT use a 330x90mm wheel while Dragster uses a 360x90mm wheel. The amount of material applied to the wheel itself is where that 30mm discrepancy is made up for.

So, theoretically, the wheels could all be interchanged...but this would only happen if there were no wheels available for a particular ride.

Regardless of size though, each of the three rides uses wheels made up of different compounds throughout the train. These compounds differ from one ride to the next and so, once again, they are only interchanged when necessary to operate the ride.

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James Draeger

TTD would have to be running consistantly enough to be launched in pairs. A rollback with 2 trains could result in serious problems. I am wondering if CP will in fact add a sixth train when they get TTD working consistantly, it would speed it up, if they launched in pairs...

As I understand everything with Dragster, here is the current situation:

Even though Dragster has 9 blocks, the time it would take the previous train to clear a block is too long and thus just holds up the launch process (with 6 trains).

Currently all trains are being moved in single-train mode, meaning only 1 train will move about the station at a time. This is a major problem for their capacity. It was attempted earlier in the season to run in multi-move operation, but supervision did not authorize it or deem it ultimately necessary. After all, their #1 goal is to keep the ride running as efficiently as possible, and running in a mode, that has not had that much operational time would be another risky move on their part.

Hope that clears everything up. Also, I have heard that they are currently working with the computer programmers to reprogram the computer to allow them to get through some of these barriers. We'll just have to see.

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MANTIS ROCKS 2002 & 2003

I was there in the middle ofAugust and five train operation was great with a launch interval of about 43 seconds. I think that six train operation might be somewhat dangerous and might cause more autimated system shutdowns. CP also need to fix the one fin by the grandstands that takes it sweet little time to go down.
*** This post was edited by Kyle Dersch 9/16/2003 6:08:38 PM ***

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playa21 said:
... if they launched in pairs...

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Launched in pairs? I'm confused - how would that work?

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Without upstops, airtime would have a whole new meaning!

To tell you the truth, I think what they've got going now is working great. On Sunday, it took less than 30 minutes to move through 2 queue blocks, meaning that the wait should never be longer than 2-2.5 hours at this current capacity. If it ain't broke don't fix it I guess...

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CP 2K3: 18
"No for real, the poopsmith is a good guy. He's just got a crappy job..." -homestar runner

But remember, Cedar Point usually builds the queues so that the queue will hold about 75 minutes' worth of riders with the ride running at full capacity.

Hmmm...Would reducing the interval by another 15 seconds really make it that much faster?

See, if everything is working as intended, the ride will be in constant motion. As soon as the first train crosses the top of the hill, the second train will move up. As soon as the first train clears the safety brake, the second train will launch. As soon as the second train launches, the next pair can start moving up, and as soon as the second train clears the tower the third train can move up.

As if the ride isn't fascinating enough, running at full capacity with six trains will be a sight to rival Blue Streak's two-train pre-1994 operation for sheer kinetic beauty... :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Cedar Point is trying to get the midgets on treadmills to run every 40 seconds, but they don't even want to run on 60 second intervels. Looks like Cedar Point needs to invent the better whip. :)

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Eddy the retard is awesome.

Like others have said- Intamin really screwed up by not having a buffer block.

They are thesting right now. Maybe for the six train operation because, all six trains are off the service tracks and the dummies are in all the trains!

*** This post was edited by cp&le rr guy 9/18/2003 8:56:30 AM ***

I've been watching on and off between my last post and now. They for sure are launching all six trains with intervals of about 35-45 seconds with the dummies still in the trains.:) :) :)

*** This post was edited by cp&le rr guy 9/18/2003 6:22:43 PM ***

Intamin screwed up by not having a "buffer block" ? What the hell is that supposed to mean?

If you look at the track from Waiting 2 through Launch you will see more proximity sensors than most rides contain from beginning to end. The hardware necessary has been in place since day one. The trains, even when only running 5, still move two or three at a time with one block's distance between each. How is that not a "buffer block" ?

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James Draeger

Dragster has a buffer. The slowest trains that make it over the hill hit equilibrium velocity near the end of the fixed brakes. The other brakes drop and the kicker wheels raise to move the train out of the brake block. The fastest trains hit equilibrium velocity towards the end of the brake block. Each block must be able to stop the train before it's end. There are no exceptions.

Rideman, dispatch can't take place untill the second train clears the tower because of the possiblity of a rollback.

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Eddy the retard is awesome.

Ah, but you see, that's where clever timing comes in. It takes a non-trivial amount of time to move a train from the forward load station to the staging block and to the launch area. In fact, the odd-numbered train cannot leave the staging block (between the station and the launch point) until the even-numbered train ahead of it clears the tower, and it cannot launch until the train ahead clears the safety brake. But there is no way to maintain an even interval if every odd train has to move from station to launch while every even train has to move only from staging to launch. For the interval to work, the trains need to be dispatched from the station at about the same time or slightly after the even numbered train launches. That way, as soon as the even-numbered train clears the tower, the odd numbered train is just starting to roll out of the staging block.

The other thing that needs to happen is that the launch system needs to start rewinding immediately after it stops, because until the launch sled resets, no train is launching anywhere. In fact, the launch sled should reset right about when the train ahead reaches the safety brake, if not earlier. That way, as soon as the brake is clear, the next train can launch.

If everything is working at peak efficiency, each train motion will cease to be a discrete event...there are going to be a lot of things happening all at once. Each motion is dependent on the others, but controlled motion takes a known amount of time, and for peak efficiency, the ride needs to take advantage of that time when possible.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.