6 Train Operation

This hasn't been talked about latly. Does anybody know what's going on with this. I would think adding the 6th train would boast up the capacity.

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CP Coaster Guide Ride Count
TTD: 1; WT: 9; MF: 4; Mantis: 3; Raptor: 6; Mean Streak: 5; Magnum: 5

I was at the park the first day that six-train operation was seen on Dragster, June 3. What you came to notice was that it really didn't speed up the process, but instead caused some major stacking. They were just as efficient with five trains. They always had two in the station loading, they never cycled a ghost train when they did it. I'm sure six train operation would work great if they could ever get the trains to move in sets instead of individually.

Even if they get them to move in sets, though, I'm not sure if six-train operation will ever be necessary. Because even in sets, it's possible (in fact, probably likely) that train 1 would be ready to unload well before train 5 and 6 can exit the unload area. Hence, it might just be easier to keep it at five trains.

But I don't know the process all that well.
*** This post was edited by mk468zz 7/12/2003 1:59:32 PM ***

Well if they could get them through unload without having 10 ride-ops having to run down and push it, they might be a little better at getting them out of the unload area. The other day I was there I saw Monty Jasper and Bill Spehn helping push. :)

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2003 Statistics
Top Thrill Dragster: 7
Millennium Force: 18
Trips to the point: 20

When I was at CP on June 20th, TTD was running pretty good with six trains. The launching was very constant (about 55-60 second intervals). So adding an extra train would speed up the line slightly.

That's too slow a launch sequence, especially now that they can reset the launch sled so quickly.

The problem continues to be the ability to move trains in pairs. It slows down the entire process of moving trains, and having that sixth one lingering on the final brakes while the fifth pulls into unload causes an extra few seconds of delay.

The thing is, while moving trains is pairs would still speed things up, I can't do any scenario in my head where six trains would make things faster anyway. The current setup results in two trains always being loaded, so why bother?

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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

If they can ever get down to the "theoretical" 30 second interval (with trains moving in pairs seeming to be a key factor, but not the only factor in that) I'm sure it'll make a difference, Jeff. Until then, I agree that train #6 should just sit on the bench.

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- John
I Snap Flyers

I've only been to CP once this season (June 4th, a day that will live in infamy), and i cant remember which train was off the track... but it is my understanding that the rotate which train sits out. am i right?

To hit the spec'd 1,500 pph they only need to launch every 42 seconds.

But think about it... how would the sixth train help? If the empty slot in the rotation is always closed and there are always two trains in the load station, it wouldn't change capacity.

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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

1500 pph with 16 seats requires a launch every 38.4 seconds. At that rate with 18 seats, capacity would approach 1700 pph.

Last night, the trains were being launched consistently at 55 to 65 second intervals. Sometimes a little longer, rarely much quicker. It seemed they occasionally waited a little longer to allow a train to clear the brake section. At one point all five trains were sitting still nose-to-tail between the loading platform and the end of the brake run. It seems to me that they will need to move the next pair of trains into the launch area before the latter of the previous pair of trains clears the brake run to improve the capacity. If they can't do that, it look like 1100 to 1200 pph is going to be the max. If this is it, I can live with that. I went last night and got in line last night at 7:35. The last set of queues was about 1/3 full. I sat down in the green train at exactly 8:35. ONE HOUR!! I was shocked. I'd wait an hour to ride it any day I'm in the park for more than an hour and a half. No breakdowns, by the way. If they can cycle the ride at this point with five trains so they can completely empty the entire queue area in a little over an hour, I think they're doing pretty good.

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1500 pph with 16 seats requires a launch every 38.4 seconds. At that rate with 18 seats, capacity would approach 1700 pph.

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Well, yeah, but my point was that the added a couple of seats, and thus, the 1,500 should be attainable.

The only way the can effectively run six is if they can get them all to move at the same time, or at least start moving not more than two seconds apart. Having the second train in load waiting for the first to get out will never do.

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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

My question is why are block brakes always a problem at the start with Intamin rides? MF had it now TTD does. They will work it out but I would think they would learn from previous attempts and start getting it right in the programing. Sure it's a record breaker but I would think they could get it right (the block brakes) from the start one of these times.

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"This second hill is my favorite part of the ride. It is so Cool!"
TTD Status: "Contaminates in the system" S.K. Per my conversation
*** This post was edited by Hooper 7/14/2003 1:25:09 PM ***

I don't think it's a problem with Dragster, but on a lot of their rides it comes from not having a "spare" block the way the B&M rides do. If Raptor had four trains, there'd be room to stack them.

The Superman hypers (SFA, SFDL and SFNE) are the worst in this respect, and they only run two trains each. There is almost no space available to stop those trains, and it has been speculated that's part of the reason they crashed one at SFNE a couple of years ago.

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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

They really don't need it, when two trains pull out in front of the stationto launch, two more are there to get into the station. By the time they are pulled forward, the first train that was launched will be right behind the fifth waiting train to get loaded in the station. It's pretty efficient and I don't think they can load faster than they are now.

The only thing they need to work on is getting these trains launched faster, they have no problem keeping it under a minute when the train behind the first launched train goes. It just takes longer to get next pair out and launched.

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Life has it's ups and downs, might as well make it on a coaster!

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jdubya said:
I went last night and got in line last night at 7:35. The last set of queues was about 1/3 full. I sat down in the green train at exactly 8:35. ONE HOUR!! I was shocked. I'd wait an hour to ride it any day I'm in the park for more than an hour and a half. No breakdowns, by the way.

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We must have been right by each other. I got in the line at 7:40 and exited at 8:45. I was just as impressed as you. When there isn't downtime the line moves very fast. I can honestly say I'll be satisfied if the capacity stays at this rate. I'm excited to see how fast the line will move if they find a way to shave those extra seconds off and add the 6th train.
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CP2K3: Visits: 22 Drag races won: 5

Now that it is near the end of the 2003 operation season, has the 6th train ever been used, or will CP have a 5 train operation and the 6th will be an "extra" in 2004?

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Beer and golf Thursday thru Monday, Cedar Point & beer, Tuesday and Wednesday.

I think they will stick with 5 trains next year too and always just have an "extra" train there and alternate them.

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2003 Stats: Top Thrill Dragster: 12
Magnum XL-200: 55
32 trips to the Point

There are still problems with the launch sled brakes (one fin near the entrance tunnel is still taking its sweet time to reset) which are slowing down the launch reset. Until they get that fixed, they're not going to hit interval. That's the bad news. The good news is that platform operations have speeded up to the point where, if it were mechanically possible, they could make interval on a regular basis. That, along with some tweaks in moving trains around, is what would make high-capacity 6-train operation possible.

I think we may see 6-train ops next year.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Jeff said:
, and it has been speculated that's part of the reason they crashed one at SFNE a couple of years ago.

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And probably the reason why they were only running partly filled trains during the hottest part of the summer on the SFNE one.

The last time I was at CP they sure were flying. It seemed like the odd breakdown was due to block violations? The system would shut down, and they'd have to pull train 1 from launch back to staging, and then restart the system.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this a similar idea about how Magnum has to get dispatched quick enough to prevent a set-up?

If that's the case then the 6th train would just increase the chance of a reset. It would just be better to wait till next year. After all they'll have the entire off season to rebuild whatever parts of the launch systems they need to.
*** This post was edited by Carnage 9/15/2003 9:43:02 PM ***

Everything is going fine with 5 trains. Interval seems to be about 50 seconds or so right now, which is close to the 45 or so that's needed.

The only thing that the sixth train would do at this point in the operation of the ride would be to make the ride seem "cooler" because it can run a rediculous number of trains.

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- John
I Snap Flyers