$3 soda = criminal

Why wouldn't that make sense? Honda runs a non union ship. So just because they build in a UAW area means nothing. They decide who to hire not the union. Why would that make a difference? You can't really be suggesting it makes a difference, you're smarter than that. Then to suggest that tax breaks are less of a basis than union towns is absolutely absurd. If companies all thought like that there would be no foreign manufacturers on US soil. Because every state has a union run plant or business in it. F'n ridiculous to assume that businesses are run buy a bunch of high school girls who don't want to sit at the lunch table next to the A/V club. It is quite possibly one of the most ridiculous suggestions ever made when it comes to running a business.

Now, Bowling Green employs approximatly 1,243 UAW members both on and off campus, this includes line workers, maintenance, and museum workers. This is a current number off my records here at work. Should someone get fired, that number will change in front of me in real time as soon as it they are removed from the system. I'm not firing this off the cuff or out of thin air and I'm quite curious as to where you got the 900 number from. Bowling Green is the only plant where even the manager is UAW in GM's manuafacturing facilities. Everyone down the girl who greets you at the door and the guy who waves ggood bye when you leave with your new 'vette is UAW. Thus, making it one of the largest UAW run plants in GM's stable.

I wouldn't call the Columbus/Marysville area UAW friendly.

Coastern3rd said:
Why would that make a difference? You can't really be suggesting it makes a difference, you're smarter than that.

You're right, I'm dumb. Not sure why I thought that an area with high UAW penetration might complicate Toyota's ability to hire non-UAW folks. Because that's totally crazy! /sarcasm

Then to suggest that tax breaks are less of a basis than union towns is absolutely absurd.

Indeed. Not sure how this is relevant, though, considering that's not at all what I said:

OK, so UAW presence has "absolutely no bearing" on such decisions, but tax breaks do. Because that makes sense?

Now, Bowling Green employs approximatly 1,243 UAW members both on and off campus, this includes line workers, maintenance, and museum workers. This is a current number off my records here at work. Should someone get fired, that number will change in front of me in real time as soon as it they are removed from the system.

Wait, is the number approximate or real-time? ;)

I'm not firing this off the cuff or out of thin air and I'm quite curious as to where you got the 900 number from.

GM's Global Operations Facility Database

Thus, making it one of the largest UAW run plants in GM's stable.

Regardless whether its 900 or 1200, I fail to see how a plant that manufacturers high-end sports cars is one of GM's largest plants, even if you include museum workers (which I don't understand the relevance of).

Why are the foreign badged plants in the US non-union?

So you're suggesting that a Toyota plant in a mainly Union locale is going to have trouble hiring and filling open positions? I guess if I get laid off in the future I can go to any Toyota plant including Ontario which is CAW country and get a job. I wonder why the unemployment rate is so high because according to you, Americans should have no trouble going to the Tundra plant in Texas or Sequoia plant in Indiana and get a job because the locals won't work there. Brilliant.

Gmdynamics.com is a public site that does not include all employees and only those on the actual production line. The reason I mentioned the museum employees is because they are Union as well. Now, I said largest UNION RUN, let me repeat UNION RUN that is U-N-I-O-N space R-U-N plants, not "one of GM's largest plants."

Dude, calm down. You're arguing absolutes, and not making much sense in the process.

My original response to you was simply to contradict your claim that union presence has "absolutely no bearing" on where Toyota plants are built. I fail to see how the existence of some Toyota plants in areas where the UAW has a presence contradicts my contradiction of your statement.

I get it - Toyota does, in fact, place manufacturing in areas like Texas (because building trucks in the State that buys more trucks than any other state makes sense). Hell, they even have (or had, if Toyota's efforts to remove the UAW were successful) a UAW plant.

This still doesn't demonstrate that Toyota doesn't take UAW presence into account when planning new manufacturing facilities. Considering how much you'll have to pay a several-thousand-strong workforce seems like a very relevant aspect to consider.

A Toyota plant in a union town will be able to find employees. But by locating there, the odds that the plant will be unionized at some point down the line increase dramatically. In union towns, the expectation tends to be that all manufacturing jobs will be union. And you typically have other jobs that are union as well such as grocery stores. So there will be much more support for unions. Manufacturers take that into account in determining where to locate facilities. And right to work states (predominantly in the south/west) make unionization less likely as well.

djDaemon said:
Dude, calm down. You're arguing absolutes, and not making much sense in the process.

Says the king of absolutes.

crazy horse said:
"They have other ways of making money though. They don't have to count on food profit."

The same can be said for cedar point.

Oh ok. When Cedar Fair starts to run TV channels, make movies, and sell tons of merchandise all across the country let me know. Heck, Disney even holds tons of sports events including the Brave's spring training games.

No, but cedar point also has money comming in from the resorts, games, parking, upcharge attractions, merch sales, arcades, on ride photos, way overpriced food.

Point is, they have more than enough income to pay for the rides they purchase. They also make payments on rides. They don't just pay one lump sum.

Disneys tv channels and movies don't profit the theme parks, it is a seperate division.

Disney also spends hundreds of millions on a new attractions. Cedar point may spend 20-30 million on a new coaster every few years.

So I don't think that if they lowerd the price of the sodas, it would hurt them.

^ Soda is what they make the money off of. It might cost them .30 a bottle for the machines and .10 for the fountain drinks per cup. It would not hurt them that much if they lowered it but they know the people will buy it anyway.

And I don't think that if Disney lowered the price of sodas it would hurt them either. But so what? That isn't how businesses are managed. Each of CP and Disney make business decisions with the goal of maximizing profits for its own particular business. Seeing posts from a lot of folks on this board you would think that Disney and other non-CF parks make decisions (such as pricing) out of the kindness and generosity in their hearts rather than business decisions aimed at maximizing profits.

So most of the parks other than cedar fair parks are making bad buisness decisions by not making it obvious they are ripping there guests off?

They can lower the price of the soda by 50%, and still make a killing on the profits. The only differance is that people won't feel ripped off, and they may even buy more.

Prices have really got out of hand the last 5 years. There was no arguing about the size of free ice water 5 years ago.

My father used to run a snack bar in a park. He charged $1.25 for a large soda. It cost him pennies to put together a large soda(much larger than cedar point's large). That cost was for the cup, ice, straw, and syrup.He still made $1.18 profit on a soda.

"Seeing posts from a lot of folks on this board you would think that Disney and other non-CF parks make decisions (such as pricing) out of the kindness and generosity in their hearts rather than business decisions aimed at maximizing profits."

Think about this...

Do you want your guest's to walk out the gate at the end of the night with a bad taste in there mouth over your outragious high prices? It's happining now. And so next time(if there is a next time) when they visit the park, they are going to eather bring there own drinks, or not buy any at all. So now what has happend to the profits, or more importantly...return visits?

I and many others feel like this when we visit a cedar fair park.

crazy horse said:
So most of the parks other than cedar fair parks are making bad buisness decisions by not making it obvious they are ripping there guests off?

***I never said that. I think each of the parks are making what they believe to be the best decision for their own parks (based on their business models, customer mix, cost structures, etc.). Different parks will make different decisions with respect to the same issue. Doesn't mean that some of them are making good business decisions and others are making bad ones.***

They can lower the price of the soda by 50%, and still make a killing on the profits. The only differance is that people won't feel ripped off, and they may even buy more.

***That isn't how you make business decisions on price. You set a price that you believe will maximize your profits.***

Prices have really got out of hand the last 5 years. There was no arguing about the size of free ice water 5 years ago.

***I am not going back to the water discussion. :) And my father in law agrees with what you say about prices but he would add 20 years. He stopped going to CP 25 years ago because he thought the prices were too high. My wife still remembers the car ride home that day with her dad totalling up everything he had spent for the day and saying it was way too high and that was the last time he would ever go to the park. He hasn't been back since.***

My father used to run a snack bar in a park. He charged $1.25 for a large soda. It cost him pennies to put together a large soda(much larger than cedar point's large). That cost was for the cup, ice, straw, and syrup.He still made $1.18 profit on a soda.

***Nice story but its not relevant. No one is arguing that CP is making a profit on drinks. Thats just not how you make pricing decisions.***

"Seeing posts from a lot of folks on this board you would think that Disney and other non-CF parks make decisions (such as pricing) out of the kindness and generosity in their hearts rather than business decisions aimed at maximizing profits."

Think about this...

Do you want your guest's to walk out the gate at the end of the night with a bad taste in there mouth over your outragious high prices? It's happining now. And so next time(if there is a next time) when they visit the park, they are going to eather bring there own drinks, or not buy any at all. So now what has happend to the profits, or more importantly...return visits?

I and many others feel like this when we visit a cedar fair park.

***As I noted earlier in this thread, any pricing decision (short of making drinks free) will leave you with people who think the price is too high. Make it $2 and some people will still complain that they can get it cheaper at the grocery store. Charge what the grocery stores charge and some folks will complain that the park is still ripping you off because the park gets a volume discount. Give drinks away for free and some people will complain about the drink selection. So no matter what you do, some people will leave the park with a bad taste in their mouth.

CP's goal (and any park's goal) is to make as many people happy as possible while maximizing profits (and return visits definitely factor into the analysis). That doesn't mean looking at just you and your friends or people who post on this site. It means looking at the entire population of park visitors. And my guess is that with respect to drinks for the majority of visitors to the park, the demand is just not very elastic at the current price point.

Seems to me that if folks think drink prices are too high (or any other prices are too high, services offered are not sufficient, quality of food isn't good, etc.), people can: 1) complain to the park and maybe they will make a change, 2) bring your own food/drinks or 3) stop going to the park. And 2 & 3 are the ones that will get to the profits of the park (at least if large numbers of folks do that). People who complain here and on other boards and to their friends but still go to the park and still buy the food/drinks (which I suspect is most people who complain though certainly not all) aren't likely to see anything in the way of change.

"CP's goal (and any park's goal) is to make as many people happy as possible while maximizing profits (and return visits definitely factor into the analysis)."

I agree.

But the problem is that they are so focused on maximizing profits latley, they forgot about making people happy.

"As I noted earlier in this thread, any pricing decision (short of making drinks free) will leave you with people who think the price is too high."

Not true.

When I go to a park, and it's prices are half of what cedar fair is charging, I don't feel the prices are too high. Some parks even give you free soda.(well not exactly free, but incorperated into the price). There is a differance between scalping someone and making it obvious, and making a profit.

Even you would have to admit that the prices are out oh hand in cedar fair parks. Six flags is right behind cedar fair when it comes to prices, but at least they have some deals in the parks.

We were in six flags atlanta last weekend. They had a special for $20. It included 2 chicken strip meals with fries(more food than we could finish) and unlimited soft drinks for the rest of the day with a souvinear large cup. We split the cost and it was only $10 each. They also had a special with the hand rolled pretzles. They were 2 for $5.99. Again, we bought them because it was a good deal.

It was a good feeling at the end of the day walking out without a sore ass.

crazy horse said:

"As I noted earlier in this thread, any pricing decision (short of making drinks free) will leave you with people who think the price is too high."

Not true.

That's absolutely true. No matter what, there will always be people who complain. Always.

Heck, it could be free and people will complain that its Pepsi and not Coke.

Or that the cup isn't big enough. ;)

Heck, if it were up to me, I would love to see RC cola, and gatoraid.:)

Really dj?

That was not the impression that I got when we were at holiday world, or knobles or kennywood or disney or well....you get the point. And I do hear comments from people about the high prices at cedar point.

It's kinda funny. People call me all the time when they are planning a trip to a park(because they know that I am a park geek), and the crazy prices at cedar point always come up one way or another. And it's not me that brings it up.

Even you said the prices are high at cedar point. Sure people will always complain about something, but when enough people complain about something, there must be issues with something. In this case, the high prices.

Really. Some people will complain about anything. I'm not suggesting there's a significant faction that does, or that their complaints have merit (seeing as how that's largely subjective). I'm just saying - no matter what, some people will find something to bitch about.

And again, don't confuse my pointing this out with my suggesting CP's prices aren't high. They're actually insulting in many cases, so I do what any responsible, reasonable patron should - I voice my displeasure with my wallet.