$3 soda = criminal

I agree.

I may as well leave my wallet in the car when I go to cedar point anymore.

No matter what they do they will not make everyone happy. The first page of this thread has a post in which someone said they stopped buying drinks when prices got to $2. So clearly there are folks who think drinks should be less than $2. And price them at $1 and you will have folks who say that other parks have free drinks. You will never please everyone with any decision that you make. You just have to make the decision that you think is best on balance on move on (adjusting it in the future if necessary).

And I won't admit that the prices are out of hand at CF parks. I go to Cedar Point once or twice a year. Went to Disney this year for a week (despite all the wonderful service, reasonably priced foods/drinks, etc., I have no interest in going back (would consider return trip if I have grandkids in 20 years or so) because I disappointed with the rides). In the past 5 years, I have been to Kennywood and Busch Gardens Williamsburg and a couple of water parks. I couldn't tell you what the prices for drinks are at any of those places (and until I saw this thread, I wouldn't have been able to tell you the CP's drink prices were $3 even though I was there last month). I know that prices will be higher than I would expect to pay for the same product on my own. Just like when I go to see a movie, to a sporting event, etc. And some movie theaters and sporting venues charge more/less than others. But I typically go the theater thats closest to my house and I go to see the particular sporting event/team not pick theaters/stadiums based on food/drink prices.

Whether CP charges $2 or $3 per drink (or quite frankly $4) just doesn't matter very much to me. I am not going to bring a cooler because it just isn't worth the hassle to me. For other folks, the price does matter and they should act accordingly. In the end, the language the for profit businesses understand is spoken with the wallet. If you don't like what a given business does, spend less money there/go somewhere else. Your actions may not make a difference but at least you will be spending your money where it makes you happy.

Another thing to think about...

When prices decrease, demand increases, opening up a whole new avenue of complaints for CP.

Let's say that CP cut the prices in half for most food/beverage items throughout the park, providing what most would consider decent values for the money.

Can you imagine the lines / service now? I had to wait over 30 minutes last year to get a gourmet pretzel because they couldn't make them fast enough. If that pretzel was $2.50 with cheese instead of $5, I'd probably rather pay the $5 to bypass the additional line that the price cut created.

crazy horse said:
I agree.

I may as well leave my wallet in the car when I go to cedar point anymore.

That's actually what I do. Sure, I'll bring some cash in with me, and if we're planning on getting some souvenirs, I'll bring my debit card. But, given that we stop at the awesome Subway on Perkins on our way in on most trips, and that there's free water all over the park, there's just no need for me.

GoBucks89 said:

Whether CP charges $2 or $3 per drink (or quite frankly $4) just doesn't matter very much to me. I am not going to bring a cooler because it just isn't worth the hassle to me. For other folks, the price does matter and they should act accordingly.

See, for us its not a matter of affording the prices. Its a matter of me not being at all willing to pay absolutely asinine prices for something that has no nutritional value. Heck, even if I were a multi-billionaire, I'd still not pay $3 for soda, simply on principle.

"Can you imagine the lines now? I had to wait over 30 minutes last year to get a gourmet pretzel because they couldn't make them fast enough. If that pretzel was $2.50 with cheese instead of $5, I'd probably rather pay the $5 to bypass the additional line that the price cut created."

Have you ever been inside a Mcdonald's durring a lunch rush? They have cheap food, and the line moves much faster than most lines at cedar point. Mcdonalds seems to be doing just fine.

It's who you hire for the position and how you train them. I have been in lines at cedar point where the worker had plenty of food ready to serve, but moved at a snails pace.What incentive do they have to work faster? They are not going to get a raise at cedar point, and it is highly unlikeley that they will get promoted as it's a summer job for most. Plus they are lucky if they make minnimum wage at cedar point.

We were in the toffts(sp) ice cream parlor in the front of the park the year it was built, and waited a half hour to get a ice cream. And there was only 3 people in front of us. If my friend was no so hell bent on getting an ice cream, I would have left the line. The worker seemed to be in his own little world. Half the time when I did eat in the park, it was hard to even find someone that spoke english. I remember one time I wanted a burger and fries, and the worker kept handing me a hot dog. When I kept telling him I wanted a burger and not a hot dog, he just looked at me all puzzled.

And let's not even get me started on Johhny rockets.

McDonalds has brainless burger production down to an absolute science. There's just no way you can really compare a product with millions of dollars of investment behind it to getting ice cream at CP.

dj -- Matter principle? Really? Would you pay $2 for a soda? $1?

FWIW, I don't drink soda either (whether inside or outside the park). But I pay whatever the price is for bottled water in the park if I am thirsty. I don't see any principle in the decisions at all. Its all a matter of value. If the value is there, you pay the price. If not, you don't. And that is true of everything.

crazy -- Big difference between seasonal employees and permanent employees. McDonalds is hiring people every day. If you screw up, you are gone. What is CP going to do in the middle of the summer if an employee screws up? How easy is it to find a replacement employee in the middle of the summer for a job that has a month or two left?

Crazy horse, but my point was...can you imagine the increased lines & decreased service with 50% off food / beverages throughout the park, no other variables changed?

That trip to Toft's with your friend may have been a whole lot worse...

"McDonalds has brainless burger production down to an absolute science. There's just no way you can really compare a product with millions of dollars of investment behind it to getting ice cream at CP."

I agree, but there is much that can be learned from just looking at how Mcdonald's runs there stores. Cedar fair should maybe look at how a successful buisness is run, and take some notes.

As far as millions of dollars of investment behind getting ice cream, there is a ice cream place down the street from my house. It's just a mom and pop type place. Every day durring the summer, there is a line out the door, but you never seem to wait more than 10 min in line. Why can a small non commercial place seem to figure it out, but cedar fair can't? It's not rocket science.

"Crazy horse, but my point was...can you imagine the increased lines & decreased service with 50% off food / beverages throughout the park, no other variables changed?"

I would gladly wait in a line if I knew I was getting something at a fair price, and the employies actualy tried to do there job. Why should the service decrease just because the price has? If the service is decreased because you lower the price, you should probaly find a new employie. There are plenty of hard working people out there that would kill for a job right now.

GoBucks89 said:
dj -- Matter principle? Really? Would you pay $2 for a soda? $1?

Really. I'd pay $2 for a 20oz soda in the park, if I were actually interested in drinking soda rather than water. As it stands, I prefer to drink water, and since the stuff that comes free from a fountain is almost infinitely more environmentally friendly than the same exact stuff in a bottle, I avoid buying bottles whenever possible.

...I pay whatever the price is for bottled water in the park if I am thirsty. I don't see any principle in the decisions at all. Its all a matter of value. If the value is there, you pay the price. If not, you don't. And that is true of everything.

Well, some people have more money than sense. ;)

And value is a flexible thing. A $2 bottle of water is a much better value at 4pm in the middle of August than it is at 10am in May, for example. Frankly, though, I find no value in anything at $3 for 20oz.

Where principle comes in, for me, is that, yeah, I can afford buying soda, just like I could afford to eat in the park. And sometimes, I hungry enough that there's some value in that, even with the horrible quality and high price. But, on a matter of principle, I rarely part with my money at CP when it comes to food. I refuse to support their policies.

Maybe its just semantics. Doesn't appear to me that we are saying anything different. With anything that is for sale, there is an asking price. Some people will see the value in buying the item for that price; others won't. Those who do are likely to buy and those who don't likely will not buy. And value will vary from person to person and from time to time as you note. Maybe some people view it as being a matter of principle rather than value but seems to me that the concept is the same.

And I typically drink tap water as well. Though I do that because I think it tastes better not because of environmental issues. And its rare the person that I find who claims to be taking or not taking some form of action based on environmental concerns that isn't hypocritical on other environmental matters. If someone was looking to be truly environmentally friendly, why would they visit a park that has cleared thousands of trees, displacing wildlife and uses significant amounts of electricity and water purely for entertainment purposes?

No value for anything at $3 for 20oz? How about alcohol? Fine wine or scotch wouldn't be worth that to you? Precious metals? ;)

Perhaps defining, with Webster's help, value and principle will help explain where I'm coming from.

value - a fair return or equivalent in goods, services, or money for something exchanged
principle - a rule or code of conduct

The concepts are not the same. I can find value in certain food offerings in the park, but I'm quite reluctant to purchase them because I don't agree with CP's conduct when it comes to concessions pricing. That is, I find no value in a $3 bottle of sugar or plain water. I do, however, find value in a soft serve ice cream cone. Because I dislike how CP prices their food, I will rarely, if ever, buy that ice cream on a matter of principle.

Regarding the environmental issue... Even the most environmentally conscious among us can always do more, but is that reason enough to do nothing at all? That seems to be what you're suggesting. Yes, I'm able to simultaneously use electricity in my home and give a damn about the planet. I'm hypocritical like that.

I am using a broader definition of value so it is just semantics. But at this point I really don't care if you agree. Buy or don't buy food/drinks at CP for whatever reason you want. But to the point of the thread, CP has set the price for drinks. If you want to buy, buy. If you don't (for whatever reason), don't. Why is that so difficult?

As to the environmental point, I never suggested any such thing. But I do appreciate the fact that you are arrogant enough to think otherwise. :)

Riiight.

djDaemon said:
Frankly, though, I find no value in anything at $3 for 20oz.

Really? I find plenty of value in $3 for 20 oz of 12 year single malt.

Having run a fast food restaurant in the past, I speak from experience when I tell you that you cannot even teach someone who speaks fluent English already to be any good at working quickly and efficiently for several months. To make things worse, they are only seasonal and will probably never be back so why should any of them really try any harder than they need to to get by. My friend got stuck with a brand new store in the chain that I worked at before. It has taken her a year to stop receiving complaints from the customers and to get the crew to perform at the levels expected by her bosses. So to think that you can have a crew of temps perform well after a minute amount of training is very naive.

GoBucks89 said:
crazy -- Big difference between seasonal employees and permanent employees. McDonalds is hiring people every day. If you screw up, you are gone. What is CP going to do in the middle of the summer if an employee screws up? How easy is it to find a replacement employee in the middle of the summer for a job that has a month or two left?

That's not been the mindset this year, especially lately from what I've heard out of Sandusky. They've evidently been encouraging people who are burnt out or getting there to just up and quit. In one case a supervisor was even bragging to several people about telling someone they should just quit and to be processed out in 24 hours. I've been told from the beginning of the season this year that they've put an emphasis on the "disposability" of their workforce.

But back to $3 pop...I personally see a rather large difference between a theater/sports venue charging insane prices versus some place like an amusement park. One has a captive audience for a few hours, the other has a captive audience for the entire day. This is amplified in Cedar Point's case because of its relative "isolation" to the closest cluster of generic fast food (you have to drive over a mile from the park, whereas most other parks have business surrounding them, like Kings Island where you have lots of choices just down the road). Like Jeff said way back on the first page, it is now to the point of screwing your captive audience. The crazy thing is that Kinzel came out and said it himself!

John, I'm no scotch drinker, so no value for me there.

A nice tasty micro brew, however... :)

blue -- But is this year different in that regard or do they typically do that in terms of letting people go? This year with a bad job market in the region, I suspect its easier to find replacement workers if you need them. And I also suspect that like a lot of businesses right now, reducing staff levels isn't viewed as a bad thing and they may have more people who are willing to stay longer in the year than usual because they need the money. And in a normal job market, I would expect that its harder to find replacement workers for someone who isn't working out in say late June/early July (knowing that the replacement workers will only work for a couple of months and at that point, many folks looking for summer jobs have already found them) than it is to replace a permanent worker who has the potential for a long term job at that point in the year with a non-seasonal business.

With respect to drinks, at what point does it become "screwing the captive audience?" If $3 is at that point, is $2.50 or $2? How do you make that determination? Based on what you could buy it for outside the park? In a similar setting? Something else?

And with respect to the movie theaters, does the fact that CP allows you to bring coolers into the park or keep them in your car while movie theaters (at least by their rules) don't allow you to bring in outside food/drinks factor into the analysis? And is a park responsible for whats available in its surrounding areas? And how should that factor into its pricing decisions?

CP does not allow coolers to be brought into the park. The only thing you're allowed to bring in is unopened bottled water.