Will TTD operations be impacted by Knott's incident?

When I think health care and politics... I think pointbuzz.

Brandon -- Today's exchange has been about the quality of care that doctors, nurses and our healthcare system can and do provide. It has not been about access/financing/distribution issues. So to the extent you are going to continue posting info from studies that are based primarily on access/financing/distribution issues, I would rather we talk about embiggening the cuteness of kittens as it would be more interesting and productive. ;)

Maybe we can turn to something a little more productive. My biggest concern is cost. And I agree that our current system has significant problems in terms of cost. But to me, insurance is the primary reason for the cost problems. Neither the doctor nor the patient knows or cares about the cost of services. There are no incentives in the current system (because of insurance) to keep costs down. If we the consumers bore more of the costs, I think we would see costs reduce because people would think more about the services they consume and would shop around more (and doctors would actually be forced to compete on price). I don't see how providing more people with insurance will help reduce costs.

What in any of the systems that are being proposed today will reduce costs? What incentives will insurers provide to customers to reduce costs? How do we pay for all of it (and at the same time address social security, medicare (even assuming we reduce medical costs, medicare still has numbers issues created by baby boom and extended life expectancies)?

Sure its still relevant. With the increased rate of accidents on Intamin rocket coasters, how will our healthcare system cope? ;)

I'm sure Xcelerator would have taken advantage of the public option had it been available, but to say that it and TTD have pre-existing conditions is an understatement. ;)

HeyIsntThatRob? said:
Taking Dave's idea of "health insurance being similar to automobile insurance" a step further another idea needs to change: health insurance should cover catastrophic events only and not cover the general maintenance that you should be doing (wellness visits, when you get a cold, etc.)

I've been saying that same thing forever! It's nice to see that someone else has made that comparison.

Anyway, as a libertarian, I think that there is too much government in all of our lives. Including health care.

I believe that the current insurance model is a ponzi scheme. But, instead of allowing it to fail, the government (i.e. coercion) has a corporatist system in place that allows them to exist without competing in the market. This is done through government (i.e. force) mandated HMOs. The government required (forced / coerced) companies to provide health insurance to their employees. Here, you can see, is a distortion in the market. This is corporatism, a type of socialism, in which the government forces people to purchase the products of others. So, the current health insurance system is not a result of the free market, but a result of government coercion.

Also, if we were to abolish the FDA and legalize all drugs, there would be a free market there as well. We should also abolish all government mandated licensing requirements, which create artificial scarcity.

So basically what it comes down to, with health care and other issues as well, is the need to eliminate coercion. Coercion restricts access and choice, raises prices, and is morally reprehensible. It is also the polar opposite of liberty, the very thing the government is supposed to protect.

Actually, I disagree that our health insurance system is government coerced. It really isn't, although that's what it would be under most of the current proposals. No employer is required to provide health insurance benefits, but many do. It got started as a way for employers to get out of giving raises, among other things, then it got expensive. The coercion didn't come from government, it came from workers. Unless, of course, you consider the labor unions as part of the government, in which case we're truly in trouble. :)

The lack of competition in the insurance market is only at the end-user level. Many providers compete to get the contracts for the various employers, but we employees end up without much choice in the matter. And that comes from the employer-pay model, where the insurance companies compete not for policyholders, but for vast groups of policyholders.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Rapids 77-78 said:
It is not correct, statistically, to say that if something has a one in a million chance of failure, that failure will occur within 1 million trials. Not for a binomial probability function where the events are independent (assuming the cable is inspected and refurbished or replaced as needed).

Also, the physics of a cable break and the relative motion of the debris and train have probably been studied by Intamin and found to be non-fatal.

Now, nothing is fool proof or beyond the realm of possibility, but then if we designed and lived to that extreme, we wouldn't get out of bed.

Rapids, I am aware of the above. I took statistics in college too. It is irrelevant to the point I was making, which is that some odds numbers that seem remote at first glance are actually unacceptably risky.

I am quite surprised that no one else here appears to share my concerns.

Intamin rockets have been operating for about 7 years, beginning with Xcelerator. There have been three serious uncontained cable failures during that time that I am aware of (KK, TTD, Xc). That's an average of nearly one every other year fleet-wide.

Any one of those could have seriously injured or killed someone, and it was pure luck that nothing worse happened. KK's incident surely would have had disfigurements or fatalities had the train been loaded. Pure luck that the failure occured when it did and not with a loaded train.. Pure luck that TTD shrapnel did not permanently damage someone's eyes. And pure luck that a large adult was not in the Xcelerator seat where the kid was. If the train/restraints did in fact bend as they appear to in the video, a larger adult could have had his legs or ribs crushed.

With an event like this happening almost every other year, luck will eventually run out.

Did Kingda Ka not suffer another failure. If I remember correctly did it not launch and only one set of rollback brakes rise. If the train did not clear the top hat it would have really caused some serious problems. 10 ton train heading for the station at increadible speeds equals a big big problem. Thank God the train cleared the top hat.

(Thank $DEITY we're back on-topic!)

I was under the impression that the major incident on Kingda Ka did NOT involve a rope failure, and in fact if it had, the results might not have been so catastrophic.

If we assume that to be the case, then we are down to only two rope failures resulting in flying debris. I would not consider either to be an "uncontained" rope failure. Inadequately contained, perhaps, given the flying debris, but neither of these resulted in the uncontrolled whip of a big rope under extreme tension slicing through the air like a giant cutlass, as some of the message board postings seem to imply. In fact the most likely culprit is probably the 'dead' end of the rope, piling up ahead of the launch sled because of its lack of tension. That's going to make a mess, but it is unlikely to do serious damage to people on the ride.

I submit that being involved in a capsize on a rapids ride, which is more common than these rope failures, is a far more serious incident.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Thank you Dave! Another perfect way to put into words what I was trying to say.:)

Darn you people for bringing this topic back on track. I had a big long reply to the health care debate all thought up and ready to type out, only to find we're back on topic... ;)

Hey now - roller coasters are just as important as health care reform! Or something like that... :)

I'm all in favor of universal access to roller coasters.....

Pffft! Not me! I'd prefer signs like: You must be exactly the same height as Brandon, and have the same birthday, age and Social Security number in order to ride. :)

I'm not. Keeps the lines down as it is.

Does Ring Racer use a cable as well? Or is it some sort of piston system?

It is launched by compressed air. http://rcdb.com/4161.htm

Yes, Your Mom is Too Fat, I do know it's a compressed air launch. The air still must push something in order for the train to move. I was wondering if a cable is used or is a piston and cable system utilized to launch the train. Perhaps Rideman knows the answer.

I do believe cables are used. I think it's somewhat similar to Power Tower.

well new pics have been leaked on screamscape that paint a new and more clear picture as to what happened. It appears that the cables bunched up at the end of the track and whipped in front of the train. That explains the jolt and damage to the boys leg.http://screamscape.com/html/kbf_-_xcelerator_0.htm