Which park(s) would you like to see join the Cedar Fair family?

So if I follow all this "logic"...
Cedar Fair purchased GL knowing they would not get the animals, thinking they could save a park that competed directly with CP after it was well known the debt was massive?
Seriously?
GL was a thorn in the side of CP, and the massive expansion of coasters at GL was taking place at the same time CP was chasing the coaster count record.
Buy it, squelch it, close it. Thorn removed!

What CoasterKid20 said.

^^So you're one of those people that believe it's a huge conspiracy theory. You gotta be kidding me.

What's the point in buying a park and losing money each year and not even getting the money you spent on it in return when you close it? Makes zero sense.

Cedar Fair bought the park because they wanted it to be part of their "multi-day vacation plan". A family could spend two days at Cedar Point and then one or two days at Geauga Lake.

Geauga Lake was too large for its market and Cedar Fair tried to bring it down to its size and the Marine Animals leaving helped that. The park competed with Cedar Point but was never a direct competition until Six Flags built it up and even then it was just a money loss because the market wasn't big enough to support it. So even then, it wasn't competition with Cedar Point.

If Six Flags wouldn't have added all those coasters in two years and dump too much money in (to where it couldn't make money), it never would've been direct competition with Cedar Point and it would've still kept its charm to where it would make its money off of its investments. That way, even if Six Flags did sell it to Cedar Fair, it'd still remain open. Might want to go through and look at the attendance drop and financial situation of the park before you make assumptions. It was fairly clear when it closed.

What CoasterKid20 said, again.

At any rate, I'll get back on track (sorry everyone for engaging in this debate). GoBucks, I agree with you. However, with their present track of selling the Southern California parks, it shows they are focused on financing without taking on much more debt. I'm interested in the future, but we'll see.

On a side note, does anyone remember (if it was released) how much that land in Michigan went for?

Wow, that would imply CF had a plan that went out over five years!
GL was available at a good price, had lots of assets they could part out, and at the time had property that seemed desirable for resale. Couple that with taking out the competition and it looks like a wise business decision.
Why else would they limit the auctions so that the park could never be raised from its ashes?

They are reinvesting the proceeds from the waterpark sales into the core business. Presumably because they believe the return on the core business investment will be greater than continued investment in the waterparks. If they were that concered about debt, all of the proceeds of the waterpark sales would be used to pay down debt.

SteveH, it is clear you want to have this one-tracked and want to buy into the conspiracy theory. So if you want to believe it, then go ahead. But to think someone would buy a park just to close it is completely absurd. Especially since it wasn't really a competitive park in the first place. It was fine the way it was before Six Flags wanted to try to turn it into the "Cedar Point Competition" that never became.

GoBucks, but doesn't that also helps the debt load by making more money available (therefore making more money available to pay down the debt?) I believe Mr. Ouimet said something along the lines about increasing the money used to pay the debt numerous times in their future plans. They're paying it accordingly, but using the money from the waterparks to help pay what they're investing in helps in the long run. I may be wrong in the way he wants/plans to do it. I believe that's why they recorded a larger than usual loss in the first quarter because they accrued like a $30 something million charge for paying down some debt early (it was a one-time payment). So they are definitely focused on paying that down if they would go as much as to do that.

I see it this way, you can sell your non-core assets to help pay down debt or you can sell them to invest in your core assets, therefore meaning less money to borrow (if needed) and that would help to pay your debt in the future.

You hope all of your investments increase cash flow and ability to repay debt and grow the business. I just don't see their debt as a problem with any acquisition at this point. I think its the lack of a target that makes sense for them at this point in the long term. All speculation though.

^Oh, that's what you're saying. I agree there. If a property becomes available that may help, check it out for sure.

But for now, we don't really know what they'd do if the situation arose. They're definitely growing and in healthier shape so more options are open for sure. I guess we'll see when/if the time comes.

One person on another forum keeps speculating that Cedar Fair will eventually go overseas...

If (GL)"it wasn't competitive in the first place", why else buy it?
That makes little business sense.
Same goes for the argument for purchasing Hard Rock. It would make little sense to try and reopen it, but at the right price, the rides could be relocated and the land redeveloped.

^Because the park before it was built up too much was a great destination. It made money before the massive "Lets just build phase". A park doesn't need to be in direct competition with another park to still be great. That's why smaller parks still exist once you fill a "niche". Geauga Lake was fine before Six Flags tried to turn it into a "Mega Park" that never really worked. That's why you buy it. If you think you can turn a profit it on it then go for it. It just didn't work. It was supposed to be a multi-day plan that Cedar Fair was trying to sell. They didn't just buy it and go "We're gonna gut this piece of crap because it's in Ohio. Nevermind that it really doesn't threaten our park, let's just do it because we want to make everyone mad and believe there is a conspiracy". Where's the proof? Michigan's Adventure is not competitive with any park really. It's closest neighbors/competitors are sister park Cedar Point and Six Flags Great America (two parks that are way larger). But you know what? Michigan's Adventure is not too big for its market and because it isn't, it is one of the most profitable parks in the chain (the profit margin is amazing). The park makes money and attendance continues to increase. Guess what didn't happen with Geauga Lake?

As for Freestyle Music Park, I think that park is done and I don't know if anyone would buy that unless it was really cheap. I could see the rides being sold off individually however. Maximum RPM/Roundabout looks pretty cool with that lift.

I don't know enough about the overseas amusement industry growth potential to know how it compares to the US. Could make sense though you better be very confident of the ROI when you start looking overseas.

I always viewed the Paramount acquisition as a way of expanding the CF footprint into areas with more population growth. In short term, they may have overpaid (particularly when the great recession hit) but long term I think it made a lot of sense.

If you owned a chain of pizza stores, and a major competitor down the street fell on hard times that had just installed all new kitchen fixtures decided to liquidate, would you buy it and open a second location knowing there weren't enough customers to make a profit?
You would buy him out, use that shiny new hardware in your existing stores where it's needed, and enjoy the benefits a chain has over the mom and pop competitors that remain.
Ultimately, the best way to make money is to dominate the market, and then you can charge high prices because if the customer doesn't have a real alternative.

^And that's textbook monopoly haha

I thought this thread was about parks we would like to see Cedar Fair buy IF they were expanding? It would be nice if they could add Silverwood in Idaho. Not many parks in the northwest.

SteveH, might I remind you what fansite you're currently on. Give it up, you're talking to a brick wall. Trust me, I'd love to add to it but I've derailed this thread enough as it is. I don't think it's fair to those who actually want to participate in the topic.

I agree Skippy. It's all water under the bridge (or perhaps, in a stagnant lake?) now. Honestly, no one ever wants to get a bad job appraisal, and if you view life through rose colored glasses -- things will likely never improve. The topic of "who should join the CF family" really does imply there is going to be changes for someone in the process, but I really hope that we don't repeat the past in any such acquisition.

Oh, heck, it's my fault for bringing it up in the first place and got the ball rolling as it just so happened I was doing some reading about it. Funny thing is, the old threads didn't have anyone coming to a consensus six years ago either.

Darien Lake. It has great potential, and with a company like CF behind it. It could become profitable (maybe not the MOST profitable, but money could still be made.)