Which park(s) would you like to see join the Cedar Fair family?

I want to say I would love to see Hershey Park acquired by CF, but I hate seeing original signs, charm, theming, and ride names changed when CF comes in. I hate some of the names that have been chosen for the Paramount park rides and some of Geauga Lake's old rides when they bought it.

I would hate to see Kennywood transformed into a Cedar Fair park personally. Living 7 miles from the park, I have been there perhaps hundreds of times. Yes it's lost some of it's classic charm. But the sight of snoopy walking down the midway instead of my beloved Kenny Kangaroo; well that just isn't right.

CF's smaller parks barely get the air they need to breathe! They will never see more than maintenance and modest improvements (at best) and when they cease to produce it's time for the chopping block!
GL is a prime example. Remember "phase 1" of their improvement plans? What happened to phase 2 improvements?
They purchased the property, did little to it, then raped it of its rides. Hard Rock (at the right price) could go down the same way. In fact, Six Flags did pretty much the same thing to their park in New Orleans after Katrina walking out on a 100 year deal they had with the local government.
The business of these parks is a lot like the airlines. Profitable routes get attention, losers get eliminated - and mergers/acquisitions are just the way to speed up the demise of your competition. Disney or Universal may never want a connection with CF but when you consider what either company has in their vast ownership already - there are a ton of holdings that have absolutely no relation to their park holdings.
If CF ever became a threat, both certainly have the pocketbooks to deal with the situation for sure!

SteveH said:
Busch Gardens has been cutting back on a lot of expenditures lately, and you might just get their two parks into the CF lineup - especially since it would finally give CF a Florida property.

The Busch parks sold for 2.7 billion just a few years ago. I'm pretty sure Cedar Fair is still indebt from buying the Paramount Parks. Not sure anyone would find it wise to loan Cedar Fair more money at this point, regardless of how well they're doing.

SteveH said:
I said...

"Hard Rock park certainly looks ripe for gutting / relocating rides"

Think of it like GL 2.0!

Except they wouldn't be destroying over a hundred years of history in the process, just a recent foreign expenditure that didn't work out, so no one would protest. Anyways, not sure Hard Rock Park has enough rides to make it worth it.

On 2/28/13 CF issued $500 million in unsecured bonds. Someone must be willing to give them loans, and I am sure they could easily issue more. They also recently sold off one of their water parks in California. If they found a buyer for the GL land, as well - I would say they have a lot of options for deployment of those funds.

SteveH said:
CF's smaller parks... never see more than maintenance and modest improvements (at best) and when they cease to produce it's time for the chopping block!

So, you're saying they run their parks in a way that makes good business sense. I'm not sure how that's a bad thing.

They run the small parks on a very short leash, but the big parks are the ones with huge blunders that are quickly swept under the rug.
Mishaps like STR, Skyhawk, or Windseeker would have prompted quick removal if they took place at MA - and people would likely be axed - not so, at CP.

And what's your proof that that's how it would have happened at MA?

The quick shutdown of GL is proof enough that only the home office is allowed to make screw ups and get away with it.
OMG you are such fanboys of CP, it should be enough just to read these forums to see the perception that CP can do no wrong, and is the best of any park anywhere. Of course if CP isn't your home park, and you really want it to improve outside of Sandusky, you would be much more open minded to what the addition of other parks could bring in to the chain to make it better.

SteveH said:
Mishaps like STR, Skyhawk, or Windseeker would have prompted quick removal if they took place at MA...

You are in no position to qualify those situations without access to the relevant data.

OMG you are such fanboys of CP, it should be enough just to read these forums to see the perception that CP can do no wrong, and is the best of any park anywhere.

That's a pathetically weak straw man.

Oh, my....

SteveH said:
CF's smaller parks barely get the air they need to breathe!....GL is a prime example. They purchased the property, did little to it, then raped it of its rides...Disney or Universal may never want a connection with CF but when you consider what either company has in their vast ownership already - there are a ton of holdings that have absolutely no relation to their park holdings....If CF ever became a threat, both certainly have the pocketbooks to deal with the situation for sure!

CF's smaller parks get exactly the "air" they need. Michigan's Adventure isn't one of the most profitable parks in the chain because it doesn't get "air". It's one of the most profitable parks in the chain because it gets the investment and support it needs to continue to excel.

Cedar Fair put a lot of time and money into Geauga Lake. Unfortunately, Six Flags had made such a mess of the place -- overbuilding, constant name changes and so on --it was simply too much to overcome. Cedar Fair doesn't manage based on sentiment. CF manages based on the numbers.

As for Disney or Uni having "a ton of holdings" that have no relation with their park holdings. Um, what? So Disney would consider buying a chain of amusement parks that have zip zero zilch connection to their businesses because they already own a tv network and a publishing company? That's just....silly.

Cedar Fair a threat to Disney or Uni? Do you not realize that they're not really competitors? Disney and Uni do international destination resorts. Cedar Fair does regional amusement parks. Ruth's Chris Steak House and McDonald's are both restaurants, but they really aren't competing with each other.

^noggin, you hit it directly on the head.

SteveH, you really just aren't making any sense. As a person studying business, I have studied Cedar Fairs plan and what they have done over the years. They are actually in really good shape.

Michigan's Adventure gets plenty of attention. Why do no big attractions get built there? Don't fix what ain't broke. Attendance keeps on increasing, so small investments here and there will work. You do know that the General Managers themselves get a lot of say of what will come into the park right? It's not just the choice of everyone in Sandusky.

As for Geauga Lake, I'll give you the years 2001-2002 and what Six Flags did with the park at that time. That is what signed the parks death warrant. You act like Cedar Fair didn't try. After I bought a park and I realized that it wouldn't be able to ever operate profitably (like it hadn't for so long because when they bought the park, they took on ALL of the issues, including financial) then I would remove some rides and put them in some of the other parks too. I mean, to not do that would just seem stupid.

The company did have a large debt load, but after selling the land in Michigan and two water parks, this helped lessen the debt load and give them more money for expenditures.

This has nothing to do with "fanboys", the ones responding actually seem to have rather good business sense.

None because CF doesn't like classic rides and if they did acquire a park like kennywood it would end up like GL!

CF shouldn't add any... The jury is still out for me on if buying the Paramount parks was a good idea. I was just at Kings Island, and I saw it needed some work. If they were to buy a new park, I would look at something small like Lagoon or Silverwood. Because they effectively own their market area.

I don't see Cedar Fair trying with what's left of Geauga Lake's Wildwater Kingdom. Why haven't they built that up some more and advertise it? Are they afraid how it will affect Soak City's attendance?

I read somewhere also that Cedar Fair shut down Geauga Lake's Halloween Haunt early on and quoted someone from Cedar Fair stating it was because it affected Cedar Point's Halloweekend attendance numbers. Apparently, Geauga Lake was the first in the region to start the Halloween weekends.

I understand where Six Flags went wrong but in addition to that it seems to me Cedar Fair couldn't come up with a solution for Geauga Lake without worrying about Cedar Point's bottom line. If they invested and expanded Camp Snoopy at Cedar Point how can they turn Geauga Lake into a family destination/traditional amusement park?

Why build up Wildwater Kingdom, why advertise it, if it's generating a healthy profit? Investing money where it's not needed is not smart business.

"I read somewhere...quoted someone...apparently..." So, basically, you're creating an argument based on nothing more than somebody said that somebody said something.

Cedar Fair tried to make Geauga Lake a successful operation, they really did. They couldn't. I don't understand how expanding Camp Snoopy equals solving Geauga's myriad problems.

After Geauga Lake. None.

I'll never get over what they did to GL.

Why do blame Cedar Fair for what Six Flags did to Geauga Lake?

noggin said:

"I read somewhere...quoted someone...apparently..." So, basically, you're creating an argument based on nothing more than somebody said that somebody said something.

I have been trying to understand the chain of events that lead to its closure. I have read some interesting things lately, tried back tracking to find out where it was, gave up and just hoped people got my gist.

Cedar Fair made mistakes, even admitting they underestimated the importance of the animal side but that's okay, Six Flags is the only one whose mistakes are to be acknowledged even though they'd been gone for four years by the time of its closure.

What makes people so mad about GL is the cold way they handled the elimination of the park and its assets.
Today it sits abandoned, and has no real future. If the land was at least repurposed or the Big Dipper somehow preserved, repurchased, or relocated - it would ease a lot of the bad mojo associated with the whole closing.