Virus Impact on CP

Everyone seems to be talking about the re-opening in absolutes. As in, park is open, or park is closed. And if open, that means maybe there are these certain restrictions (virtual que, every other que open, disinfecting grab bars between rides, etc.

It occurred to me tonight perhaps we will see something very scaled back this year, think Winterfest during the summer. There may be certain rides, minimal, that can open. Cedar downs, carousel, Cadillac cars, swings, etc, that are able to open with hand sanitizing stations at the exits. Large open air live E. Then of course there is the beach. Perhaps it would be something they could scale up with minimal staffing, smaller crowds (since many rides would be closed), and yet still generate some revenue. In many ways, such an opening would really be paying homage to the Cedar Point of old, as we celebrate the park’s 150th anniversary.

The “open or closed” responses here so far seem problematic, on both sides. Maybe something in the middle is more appropriate and would help stave off some of the financial Armageddon the park is going through.

Not sure warm temps play a role. That has still been up for debate and hasn't proven conclusively either way. Looking at a map, Brazil has 43000 cases and 2700 deaths. With an average temperature of 80+ degrees. I would say Mexico's numbers are "low" because of lack of testing. I look forward to further scientific evidence of this hypothesis. I'd love to enjoy some summer.

mgou58 said:
I did see the mention about masks and plexiglass, and maybe Dave could help out here, but I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around how the workers, specifically ride operators would maintain social distancing, which, regardless if they open in June, July or August will be required.

Only an opinion from me...

But in my own experience, a day at a park does not usually involve that much intimate contact with strangers. In visiting a park somewhere almost every weekend day from April-November for almost 30 years, I can think of one occasion where I caught a cold...and that was from spending an entire day with a couple of guys who turned out to be sick. Not from being around sick people throughout the day, but from spending the entire day with two sick people, including friendly handshakes at the beginning and end of the day. Yes, anecdotal evidence is almost worse than no evidence at all, but the point is, given the way that viruses travel and infect people, due to the generally insular behavior of patron groups, there is a certain amount of isolation that will tend to reduce viral transfer. Add to that the relatively low odds of actually encountering someone who is actually infected, and things start to look a whole lot safer. Of course that gets blown out the window when you realize that perhaps the majority of COVID-19 victims are completely asymptomatic (i.e. not sick) but still spreading the virus...and if you do get sick from it you might have to wait two weeks to find out. Those two factors combined with the unpredictability of which cases are going to result in serious complications vs. which ones will be completely asymptomatic are what make this particular pandemic so difficult to manage.

Viruses are not especially resilient, and in the summer time they are remarkably less so. A hopeful sounding study suggests that sunlight (not heat) reduces the lifetime of the novel coronavirus on stainless steel surfaces from about 48hrs to about ten minutes. The report was leaked, so the results might not be considered conclusive, but it's a hopeful sign.

CDC guidelines suggest a 6' bubble around each person, but that doesn't really explain the mechanism of infection, which is really quite limited: what is really sufficient if you aren't touching anything is 6' face-to-face. Someone sneaking up behind you and breathing down you neck might deposit gross droplets on the back of your head, but unless you bring that around to your nose and mouth it isn't going to infect you. Furthermore, most contact in an amusement park is fleeting and incidental (though it may be repetitive, as in a queue) which further reduces the danger of transmission. In short, while this virus is serious business, with a certain level of vigilance (and a whole lot of hand-washing!) I think most of us can minimize our risk. It's going to require a lot of personal responsibility, though, along with a certain level of risk management.

As for how ride operators might maintain some kind of 'social distancing' in doing their jobs, this is where some of the greatest dangers may lie, as a typical restraint check is a face-to-face interaction, and I don't think we're going to see platform attendants wearing face shields like a bunch of machinists. There are things that can be done operationally to reduce person-to-person contact, things that used to be common at Cedar Point, and are still common at Disney's parks. Basically, take advantage of automation and spring loaded locking systems, go back to visual restraint checks and have patrons check their own bars and belts. It violates everything that IRT stands for, but it has proven successful for many decades. A return to this 1990's style of platform operation can be just as safe as all the pushing and pulling and tugging that attendants do now, and as a bonus may even speed things up a little.

Also, forgive me for sounding stupid, but where exactly does all of the plexiglass play a role?

Have you been in a grocery store lately? Check out lanes, service counters and pharmacy departments are starting to look like salad bars with all the sneeze guards in place. Mostly I suspect that we will see plexiglas going up wherever there is a face-to-face interaction, such as a food service counter. Although I suppose if they wanted to get extreme with it such barriers could be erected on the tops of queue rails to a height of about 6' to separate people moving in opposite directions. It might make sense from a virus protection perspective, but the reduction in airflow in some queues might be enough to cause people to drop from heatstroke.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

A very well rounded task force: representing both parties, mayors, hospital, Education, financial, utilities, tourism and retail.
This task force could create a model for Ohio and other states to work off of, albeit modified for region.

TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA – Governor Ron DeSantis hosted a conference call with members of the Re-Open Florida Task Force Executive Committee to discuss the re-opening of Florida’s economy.
Members of the Re-Open Florida Task Force Executive Committee are as follows:
– Lieutenant Governor Jeanette Nuñez, Lieutenant Governor of Florida
– Jimmy Patronis, Florida Chief Financial Officer
– Ashley Moody, Florida Attorney General
– President Bill Galvano, President, Florida Senate
– Speaker Jose Oliva, Speaker, Florida House of Representatives
– Senator Wilton Simpson, President-Designate, Florida Senate
– Representative Chris Sprowls, Speaker-Designate, Florida House of Representatives
– Commissioner Richard Corcoran, Commissioner of Education
– Jamal Sowell, President & CEO, Enterprise Florida, Inc.
– Mayor Carlos Gimenez, Mayor, Miami-Dade County
– Mayor Dale Holness, Mayor, Broward County
– Mayor David Kerner, Mayor, Palm Beach County
– John Couris, President & CEO, Tampa General Hospital
– Josh D’Amaro, President, Walt Disney World Resort
– Todd Jones, CEO, Publix Super Markets
– Syd Kitson, Chairman, Board of Governors for the State University System
– Paul Reilly, Chairman & CEO, Raymond James Financial
– Alex Sanchez, President & CEO, Florida Bankers Association
– Eric Silagy, President & CEO, Florida Power & Light Company
– John Sprouls, CEO, Universal Orlando Resort, Executive Vice President, Universal Parks & Resorts
– Patrick Sunderlin, Vice President, Global Supply Chain, Lockheed Martin Corporation
– Joe York, President, AT&T Florida and Caribbean

Jeff said:

Well of course they are, and everyone wants to get back to normal life. That doesn't mean that it's necessarily possible.

What I meant was that unlike some professional sports, concerts, and theater - which have all conceded to a "2020 isn't likely to happen" Cedar Fair and park operators are not joining that group

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/Coronavirus/2020/04/16/ohio-unemp...0200416092

The state unemployment fund is getting low. It looks like we have to start reopening some things and getting people back to work out of necessity. People running out of money creates a whole other set of problems. And when the state has to borrow federal money, it creates a burden on employers who pay into the unemployment as they have to help pay back the interest on the debt. Either way is not good. I believe it will be possible to reopen things with restrictions while keeping new cases under control.

Thabto said:

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/Coronavirus/2020/04/16/ohio-unemp...0200416092

The state unemployment fund is getting low. It looks like we have to start reopening some things and getting people back to work out of necessity. People running out of money creates a whole other set of problems. And when the state has to borrow federal money, it creates a burden on employers who pay into the unemployment as they have to help pay back the interest on the debt. Either way is not good. I believe it will be possible to reopen things with restrictions while keeping new cases under control.

Interest rates are basically zero. Cheap to borrow the money right now.

There was an article in the sandusky registar that CP is buying a Crapload of Plexiglas and cleaning supplies... that to me sounds like they want to open.... and the trains are in the stations or the stand-by spots (you can see Gatekeepers trains in the "blocks" with the webcam. Cedar fair is pushing the government saying they are Needed for economic reasons (probably trying to get themselves into the stage 1 release group when trump cracks open the floodgates). The plus is the toll booth will be ready... Saw a post on FB and it looks like all they need to do is put the machines in and the LED lane boards.

With some of the recent talk about the fall return of the virus being, potentially, worse than the current incarnation I think the park operators need to be thinking about an abbreviated summer season and the loss of the fall. That will be significant for Cedar Fair where the Octoberfest and fall schedules have been playing an increasing role in revenue each season.

If Cedar Fair isn't already doing it they should be aggressively looking at order ahead software for restaurants...to avoid people standing in lines. They should be taking a look at opportunities to expand outdoor seating opportunities. I've got some real concerns for Cedar Fair's dormitories but if they can't hire 1,000 foreign workers anyway maybe capacity will be less of an issue. (They may regret tearing down Sandcastle Suites though perhaps they could use Sawmill Creek for housing if necessary.)

Nothing is off the table at this point...or on the table for that matter.

Is it wrong of me to think that a Cedar Point would be easier to open, and open safely, than a Disneyland?

Since Disney draws a national and worldwide crowd where Cedar Point is more of a regional draw, in that regard it would be safer and easier for CP to open than Disney. The challenge CP faces would be staffing since they rely more on international workers and workers that live on site. Depending on how watered down operations will be, that may not be too much of an obstacle. Kings Island would probably be the easiest to open.

And think of the people from out of state... didnt dewine say anybody from outside the state has to self-quarantine for 14 days... so for a person from _ichigan coming down would have to self-quarantine for 14 days before they go to CP right?

Michigan is one of the states coordinating with Ohio on restarting. I think the states are something like Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota and Wisconsin. I could have those wrong, but it's something along those lines.

Did anyone see the shots of what Asia is doing in their parks that are open? 1 person per car and staggered.... that might be what CP does but that would make for LOOOOOONG lines.

scott sarah said:

And think of the people from out of state... didnt dewine say anybody from outside the state has to self-quarantine for 14 days... so for a person from _ichigan coming down would have to self-quarantine for 14 days before they go to CP right?

It's suggested, but there's no way to enforce or monitor it. Someone coming from Michigan or PA doesn't "have" to, it's just suggested.

A very well rounded task force: representing both parties, mayors, hospital, Education, financial, utilities, tourism and retail.
This task force could create a model for Ohio and other states to work off of, albeit modified for region. -XS

How about a Task Force of Medical Professionals? There's maybe 3 on the list you posted, most are CEO's, Mayors ect. I sure hope they listen to the CDC and the MP's around them.

There is growing evidence out there that the mitigation efforts (read: lockdown) are no more effective than far less stringent measures. Look at the data for the states that have not mandated stay at home orders. Don’t take my word for it.

I do think that the social distancing is important, as well as aggressive personal hygiene efforts. But I have very good friends out in Northern California who have all ignored the lockdown orders (not individually but as a community) and are not really seeing any different result, and in fact, have very few cases.

I get that each area is different and that maybe weather and other things play a factor but I’m really starting to believe that this lockdown is not the way to go. And when I say “believe” I am saying in response to data and science, which are the basis on which I have formed those opinions. Without interpretation.

No matter how the talking heads spin it, even with hospitals padding the numbers, this virus isn't living up to the grim predictions that led to the shutdown. Not even close.
It's time to admit that we were wrong and just flip the switch. No need for another task force or any more "expert" medical advice.

And as always, the weak and frail are welcome to remain in hiding.

MaverickLaunch said:

There is growing evidence out there that the mitigation efforts (read: lockdown) are no more effective than far less stringent measures.

False. You can't just make stuff up and declare it true. You have to at least be president to get away with that. There are many variables, but to suggest that restricting movement has no effect is total and complete bull**** in every way. The evidence you speak of is elusive as that of your assertion that the New York Times is wrong. We've waited at least a month for that evidence.

"And as always, the weak and frail are welcome to remain in hiding." -Unc Steve

Wow. 46k+ dead in roughly a month. But that doesn't matter because the numbers are "Padded". What number would tickle yer compassion gland? 100k? 200k? Maybe a Million?

Fascinating.