Virus Impact on CP

MaverickLaunch said:

Remember when science said covid was not transmissible person to person? Remember when science said the r-naught of covid was about 1.5-2.0?

Nonsense. Science did not "say" either of those things.

For example, on 23-Jan, the WHO stated the following:

We know that there is human-to-human transmission in China, but for now it appears limited to family groups and health workers caring for infected patients. At this time, there is no evidence of human-to-human transmission outside China, but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.

The problem is that you are incorrectly interpreting what science is "saying". That's not an indictment of science, that's an indictment of your ability to read and correctly interpret words.

Saying no evidence at this time is not the same as saying something is not possible. Science would never "say" such a definitive thing with such little data. I mean, that would be as stupid as saying the virus would disappear in April based on what Jared Kushner told you. But thankfully "science", and of course the WHO, is not as stupid as our President (not that that is a high bar).

The WHO? Is that the Wuhan Health Organization?

Them, and the government of China, are what got us into this mess. I don't love everything he does (despite some of you calling him "my boy") but pulling funding temporarily for WHO was a bold move that I applaud. We are wasting enough money as it is, we don't need to send half a billion dollars a year to an organization giving us bad information at worst, and aiding China in a coverup at worst.

This is The WHO:

djDaemon said:

MaverickLaunch said:

Remember when science said covid was not transmissible person to person? Remember when science said the r-naught of covid was about 1.5-2.0?

Nonsense. Science did not "say" either of those things.

For example, on 23-Jan, the WHO stated the following:

We know that there is human-to-human transmission in China, but for now it appears limited to family groups and health workers caring for infected patients. At this time, there is no evidence of human-to-human transmission outside China, but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.

The problem is that you are incorrectly interpreting what science is "saying". That's not an indictment of science, that's an indictment of your ability to read and correctly interpret words.

Saying no evidence at this time is not the same as saying something is not possible. Science would never "say" such a definitive thing with such little data. I mean, that would be as stupid as saying the virus would disappear in April based on what Jared Kushner told you. But thankfully "science", and of course the WHO, is not as stupid as our President (not that that is a high bar).

I think your misunderstanding that science is a concept made by human's that can be fallible as we gather data that could be intentionally or accidentally misread or manipulated for various reasons.

Trusted science institutions have definitely said stupid things before. For instance, it said smashing people's brains with an ice pick was great way to treat mental illnesses, That homosexuality is an illness, HIV is a gay disease, heck we discover things all the time about our body that we're unaware of that wasn't acknowledged before!

The further away your from mathematics (physics is closest) the more science can be misinterpreted or misread. We are still trying to understand the situtation and gather data so it is quite normal for different report's and studies to contradict each other.

That is not a political statement. It is how science works. It can and will continue to have instances where it is wrong. We were advised not to wear mask, now people want to mandate masks, quite contradictory isn't it?

MaverickLaunch said:

The WHO? Is that the Wuhan Health Organization?

Yes, of course you think it's a good, bold move, because the GOP propaganda echo chamber told you so. Just like they told you that "science said this was not transmissible!!!11!!1!" and you repeated it without any critical thought or investigation.

Meanwhile, literally everyone who knows what they're talking about is lamenting what a stupid, counterproductive idea it is to pull pandemic funding during a f****** pandemic. It's like shutting off the water supply when you're fighting a fire. Just, so, so immeasurably stupid. And done completely out of spite in an effort for Trump to please his base, loss of life be damned.

And go ahead and criticize the WHO all you want (it's what Dear Leader expects, so I am not surprised you're carrying his water), but here's the thing. The WHO responded to this virus way more proactively than the US did. And had we heeded their guidance back in January, fewer American lives would have been lost. But, of course, the President and his administration ignored the guidance of the WHO.

So again, the President's incompetence caused deaths that could have been otherwise avoided. So as bad as you (baselessly and, frankly, ignorantly) claim the WHO is, even if we accept that baseless accusation, this administration is orders of magnitude worse.

djDaemon said:

The WHO responded to this virus way more proactively than the US did.

You mean when they disagreed with the ban on travel from China to the US?

As for the rest of your post, pure nonsense, I'm not even going to respond. It is inaccurate in it's entirety.

It's funny watching Trump supporters(MaverickLaunch) spew the same ignorance as Dear Leader.

The talk of wasting money is rich, from a supporter of a party that spends like drunken sailors every time they get in power, claim debt & deficits don't matter & suddenly find Jesus on spending, debt, deficits once they get thrown out of power. Then they repeat the cycle of selective concern. among presidents Reagan, GWB, & now Trump, same for their Congressional & Senate Leaders ie....Gingrich, Ryan, Frist, Dole, Lott, McConnell, etc...

FYI, the money that they & you selectively care about being spent comes from the blue states(donor state, which .pay more in taxes than they receive from the Feds) & goes disproportionately to red moocher states(that receive more back from Feds than they pay in taxes). The biggest donor states are the ones the rightwing hate the most, CA,NY,IL.,MA, CT, NJ, etc...the one that pay the bills for red states. 14 of the 15 poorest states in the country all vote solid red for decades. They send people to DC complaining about spending that goes ridiculously disproportionately relative to their tax contribution, to their low income, low gdp, low education, bottom of every health & social well being statistic states. Their states are largely **** holes and would be even bigger ones, if the Feds didn't pay so much of their bills.

A little fact check from the failing New York Times about the W.H.O.'s response:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/health/WHO-Trump-coronavirus.html

Or if you're feeling more rock-n-roll, the timeline, fully annotated, with the federal response as well:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/rolling-sto...ca-982944/

That NYT article (which I just wasted five minutes of my life reading) is really something. Super strange that it criticizes the President though.

The fact that WHO praised China's handling of the outbreak and containment tells me all I need to know about the WHO. Anyone with half a brain knows China's numbers are grossly under reported, and I'm talking about an order of magnitude. Even the people who live in Wuhan are saying this. I wouldn't be surprised if their real numbers were something along the scale of a million cases and 50k deaths.

Haven't read the rolling stone article but I have a feeling I know what it will say since they are so liberal biased. They love to omit facts that are detrimental to their argument. Very one-sided presentation of historical "facts"

Usually, things are true just because they're true, even if you perceive bias. There are no "sides" to facts.

Linking articles and making long articulate posts seems to be a waste of time. So hows this Mav, March 10th the POTUS said it would all go away. It's a fact.

Is it so hard to just admit he's incompetent? The views you have on media bias, China and science can still be true even if the President is incompetent.

XS with his massive contributions to this thread and calling me a drunk reminded me of the 12 step program. The first step is admitting you have a problem. The President is flat out a problem and will blame Santa Clause if his base will buy it. It's never his fault he's perfect and has never in his life made a mistake.

I said this weeks ago. I don't have a bias in this case, if this was Obama I would be saying the same thing.

I also said this weeks ago, but I respect ya Mav for participating and debating. Cheers!

I’ve owned my nightclub since 1996, I’m used to dealing with the belligerent ramblings of a drunk trying to repeatedly beat his dead horse. Cheers!

MaverickLaunch said:

The WHO? Is that the Wuhan Health Organization?

Them, and the government of China, are what got us into this mess. I don't love everything he does (despite some of you calling him "my boy") but pulling funding temporarily for WHO was a bold move that I applaud. We are wasting enough money as it is, we don't need to send half a billion dollars a year to an organization giving us bad information at worst, and aiding China in a coverup at worst

There is precident for defunding the UN or part of it. The NCA is acting properly in this case

So, in case you weren't paying attention, we learned today that Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana and Kentucky will all be working together and coordinating re-opening efforts together.

While what specific businesses will actually re-open was not specifically stated, he did say that as of May 1st, some things will indeed start re-opening.

That said, there will be a new "normal" of how we all interact with those businesses; so it's not as if the doors of certain places are just being thrown open.

He was also emphatic that places with large gatherings (like, you know, amusement parks) will be the very last to open in what will be a closely monitored, slow, progressive re-opening of businesses. No shocker there.

More to come...

DeWine did mention his love of the Ohio State Fair. It leads me to believe that whether it happens or not, DeWine is pro CP/KI/fair/festival happening *if* it can be done safely. He's not going to keep these things closed just for the heck of it. If there is any chance it all it can be done safely, he'll help make it happen.

That is certainly good news. One step closer to returning to somewhat normality. I have no doubt they will make the right decisions and carefully monitor the data before moving onto the next phases.

XS NightClub said:

I’ve owned my nightclub since 1996, I’m used to dealing with the belligerent ramblings of a drunk trying to repeatedly beat his dead horse. Cheers!

You haven't responded to any of my long form posts XS. Only in the last couple days you've decided to call me a drunk. Respond directly to those posts in long format. It's simple buddy.

Then we might have a civil debate.

Yes XS I'm an Alcoholic. It's not fun and this crisis has made it harder to deal with. However I've spent hours on this thread trying to articulate the issues I have with this administration. I've never called anyone on here names and haven't been disrespectful towards other members.

I bet you wish all drunks could be so well behaved. As an Uber Driver and you a Bar Owner I think you'll agree.

Cartwright said:

DeWine did mention his love of the Ohio State Fair. It leads me to believe that whether it happens or not, DeWine is pro CP/KI/fair/festival happening *if* it can be done safely. He's not going to keep these things closed just for the heck of it. If there is any chance it all it can be done safely, he'll help make it happen.

I just wonder what a "safe" Cedar Point looks like before a vaccine. You can have everyone wear masks, sure, but that's not foolproof.

Jeff said:

Usually, things are true just because they're true, even if you perceive bias. There are no "sides" to facts.

This, I agree with.

But simply calling reporting or statements factual does not make them so. Simply invoking “science” to bolster an opinion also does not necessarily make it true.

I wish everyone understood the difference. Then, we’d be left with only our opinions, and I totally support the right of anyone to have an opinion counter to mine. It’s when false or misleading information is presented as facts, and then the ad hominem attacks that follow, that I take issue with.

Because I do not agree with some of you does not make me a moron, or a “sheeple”, or an idiot blindly following our “dear leader” as has been said many times. This is kindergartener behavior. I’d like to think you guys are better than that. Respect differences of opinion. When you have to defend your argument with these character assaults, it doesn’t do much to support your argument.

https://www.cedarpoint.com/park-update

If you go down to the FAQ towards the bottom, it's the second one in the first set of 3 that outlines the sanitation and cleaning procedures. I would assume the 5 people per 1000 sq ft rule like there is in stores, would be in place here which would mean lower attendance caps. And probably less of the queues will be open to allow for more spacing between guests. And attractions going down for sanitation breaks every so often. Probably also means little or no live entertaiment. And probably no touch food service, heck, it was pretty much already that anyway. I don't think I ever came close to a food workers hands when getting food at the park. And when they scan my pass I just held it up or under the scanner.