Top Thrill Dragster 2022 Status

That's a lot of real estate.

Kevinj said:

That's a lot of real estate.

Take out Gemini and it could be enough real estate to replace the void in the skyline that removing Dragster would create.

I feel like the tricky thing with the Dragster plot is that it's long and narrow, but I think a mistake that's often made when people armchair RCT like this is to assume the hypothetical replacement ride has to occupy -exactly- the same footprint.

To continue the parallels with Son of Beast, look at the footprint Banshee takes up vs what SoB took up. Assuming Dragster is indeed toast, I feel like this is a rare opportunity to kind of undo what was done to that midway and make it flow better with the lagoon like it once did. I could also kind of draw a comparison to the removal of Disaster Transport, in the sense of it being the removal of a very rigid and geometric structure from an otherwise fairly organic location, if that made any sense.

If they were to take dragster out, and be willing to relocate reorganize everything except for other rides (eg buildings, shops, etc) that would give them a pretty solid amount of space to integrate several different types of rides into that area with a midway redesign. The coaster enthusiast dream would be some sort of wooden roller coaster that interacts with the terrain area or with the midway going through it, maybe even move out into the breakers parking lot, but that may be wishful thinking.

As others have said I imagine that the holdup now is more lawyer/legal related than it is mechanical (directly). But I certainly don't imagine this was in there future planning (if the demolition route is taken) and they would want some time to come up with what they're going to do with that plot of land. Three ride losses in 2 years would probably introduce some serious strategizing on how to make sure it doesn't come back on them. If nothing else announcing a new ride somewhere in the park (as others have mentioned) at the same time to soften the blow would seem a likely attempt to me.

Maybe don't replace it with another coaster? Id like to see the midway turned back into its pre TTD form with benches and shade with maybe a flat ride. Open the waterway back up and allow guests to walk along it.

Much like the beautiful piece of real estate formerly occupied by Wicked Twister, the words "maybe don't replace it with another coaster" instantly come to mind.

There is so much more to have.

America’s Park Bench Coast.

Don’t worry. They’ve moved past building rollercoasters. Now they’re into building the worlds biggest restaurants that will serve exclusive entrees in seasons one and two and then revert back to chicken tenders and fries after that. Like Tony said; whatever is replacing Wicked Twister will be for everyone. Who doesn’t like a basket of tenders and fries for only $19.99?

there is another plot of land they might be able to use also...... the offices... I have seen things online saying they want to move the offices to the carolinas..... that is a descent area for a flat ride or compact coaster.

I said last year I have three different hypothesis on the cause…

- Incorrect grade or defective hardware was used to secure the flag plates. Of course I still don’t get why they aren’t welded in place.

- Wrong grade or defective Loc-Tite used on the bolts. If you’re not gonna weld these plates in place I would hope they use red Loc-Tite, which requires heat to remove the fastener.

- Someone dropped their torque wrench, knocking it out of calibration.

The fact that two other trains showed issues with the flag plates lends to this being something wrong within the procedure, not something was missed during inspection. I wonder if they did a breakage stress test on the remaining hardware?

My complete rework of the TTD/PT/Corkscrew Midway. Would include the removal of TTD, Super Himalaya (or possible move), grandstand refreshments and Corkscrew + movement of Power Tower current queue. Would introduce 2 new flats (or Super Himalaya move + 1 new flat) and new coaster. Would **** Midway to run along the lagoon for new nature filled views and stunning views of Iron Dragon flying over. Would introduce a new Midway hub with a large green space. Potential space for restaurant/foodstall (not shown).

Shane, I don't agree with your hypothesis.

There are two ways the bolts loosen up. One is if they back out. The other is if they are subjected to stresses that cause the bolts to stretch into yield, as can happen with impact loads. As happened with the Chaos at Michigan's Adventure.

Let's assume for the moment that all of the Cedar Point people's testimony in the State report is truthful and accurate. I'm going to make that stipulation because of the possibility that Shane is assuming otherwise. Or at least that his hypothesis does not fully take that testimony into account.

We know that the mechanics did not observe the damage to the wheel bogies or to the flag plates during the daily inspection. We also know that people were hearing odd noises on the brake run. Metallurgically, the fastener failure was described as a sudden catastrophic failure due to impact loading. That's consistent with the flag plate hitting something at high speed. Damage to all of the trains means they all hit something at high speed, and only the green train hit enough times with enough force to fail the bolts.

Repeated impact would be enough to stretch the bolts and cause them to loosen. A properly torqued bolt is stretched to just shy of its yield point to maximize its holding force. Unexpected impact loading can stretch the bolt into yield, essentially the same effect as over-tightening the bolt. Except that because the bolt doesn't turn, and it is an instantaneous loading, it's more like over-tightening the bolt and then backing it off...which, because the bolt stretches, causes it to loosen, meaning that with each impact more motion is possible, which will ultimately fail the bolt. In this case, the green train went around enough times hitting something that the flag plate bolts failed and the plate came off. Since all the operating trains that day had similar cycle counts, it can probably be assumed that all of the trains suffered similar damage, and others were probably approaching the same failure point experienced by the green train. It just happened to be the one that failed first.

Much has been said about the flag plate, the fasteners used to hold it in place, and the thread locker used to hold the fasteners in place. What was sorely lacking from the State's report was a detailed analysis of what it was that the flag plate was hitting when the train went around. We see damage to the prox switches where they might have been grazed by the flag plate, but those things are not as substantial as the plate; had they been hit hard, they would have been shot down the midway. The most likely culprit appears to be a magnetic brake bracket which is seen with a damaged uptrack edge. There is also a story related about alignment issues with the brake brackets, and missing, broken, or loose fasteners on those brake brackets, and a notation that they were not entirely repaired before the ride was operated. That surprised me, as I am wondering how many of those fasteners are permitted to be faulty for the ride to still operate. I also wonder why disused brake brackets are still attached to the track instead of being unbolted and removed so as not to be a potential hazard to operating trains.

Finally, somewhere someone called me out and asked about the partial rehab that they did to the trains prior to the 2021 season, in which Car #3 was rebuilt on all of the trains. It's not uncommon in a continuous maintenance environment to work on, say, one car per train per day. I know that's how they handle wheel lubrication on the Blue Streak, for instance...grease all the wheels on one car on each train each day, and by the end of the week everything has been done twice. Or something like that, anyway. At first I am a little surprised that they opted to do Car 3 on all six trains instead of doing, say, car #1 on the first train, #2 on the second, and so on. That way if they found a problem with any of the rebuilt cars they would know to go back to that car on the other five trains for additional inspection.

Then it occurred to me...I'd have to look closer at the train to be sure, but I believe Car #3 is the one that has the launch clutch assembly and the associated components, so it is actually the most mechanically complex of the five cars, and probably the one with the most critical assemblies. So being sure to rebuild Car #3 on all six trains actually does seem to make sense.

In any case, I don't think the decision to only rebuild Car #3 on each train had anything to do with the incident. I think the best evidence we have is that the incident was actually caused by something amiss on the track itself.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I think CP needs more time to work with the family of Ms. Hawes and the lawsuit that they most likely filed. I can see them evaluating what needs to be done about the queue line area. I say place a giant net around and over the top of the area, so it can catch any loose part or even water bottles, phones, glasses, keys that fly off. Or re-route the line (somehow) but that's a tough midway to do so. Maybe over along the lagoon/ iron dragon? Smiler at Alton towers has a huge net over the whole queue line zone. I can't see CP doing a Zumanjaro type ride with the SBNO structure (as I've heard) to the ride as there is already power tower.

I'm not entirely sure a net would have prevented injury here. We're talking a piece of metal that came flying off at high speed. Had a net been in place, it would have sliced right through.

This. Unless we are talking braided steel cord nets (which would look incredibly.... not right) it wouldn't have made much difference with a hurtling chunk of metal.

Yes, honestly I think it would make more sense to put skirting and wheel covers on the train than to try and protect the queue and midway with anything less than a building.

That said, I'm really not sure that any such protection is actually needed. Let's start by fixing the problems that caused the incident in the first place. What was that about not being able to replace all the bolts in the brake bracket assemblies before the ride opened?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RideMan said:

The most likely culprit appears to be a magnetic brake bracket which is seen with a damaged uptrack edge. There is also a story related about alignment issues with the brake brackets, and missing, broken, or loose fasteners on those brake brackets, and a notation that they were not entirely repaired before the ride was operated. That surprised me, as I am wondering how many of those fasteners are permitted to be faulty for the ride to still operate. I also wonder why disused brake brackets are still attached to the track instead of being unbolted and removed so as not to be a potential hazard to operating trains.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

That struck me too although I guess I didn't make that point well previously. If they are not mounting brake fins to those brackets what are they there for? Do they change the number of permanently mounted brake fins throughout the year? Or is that just some holdover that they took the brake fence off of but left on the track? If so why? If it didn't need to be there could removing it have prevented this issue?

The more I read about this incident the more and more I'm honestly confounded that the Point wasn't found at least partially at fault for this incident.

RideMan said:

Much has been said about the flag plate, the fasteners used to hold it in place, and the thread locker used to hold the fasteners in place. What was sorely lacking from the State's report was a detailed analysis of what it was that the flag plate was hitting when the train went around. We see damage to the prox switches where they might have been grazed by the flag plate, but those things are not as substantial as the plate; had they been hit hard, they would have been shot down the midway. The most likely culprit appears to be a magnetic brake bracket which is seen with a damaged uptrack edge. There is also a story related about alignment issues with the brake brackets, and missing, broken, or loose fasteners on those brake brackets, and a notation that they were not entirely repaired before the ride was operated. That surprised me, as I am wondering how many of those fasteners are permitted to be faulty for the ride to still operate. I also wonder why disused brake brackets are still attached to the track instead of being unbolted and removed so as not to be a potential hazard to operating trains.

Good question. I was surprised they didn’t try and see which bracket it could have been, though perhaps since they were impacted they would never know the original position. Would have liked to see that addressed though.

If I am reading it right, there was reports of noise from the brake run on the day of the accident. A mechanic discovered loose bolts on which where then tightened. Question I have is if they checked for alignment before restarting the ride. Report doesn’t seem to suggest that either way, or even if it was questioned. CP testimony even suggest the brake bracket alignment is a constant issue, so surprising this wasn’t pressed more.

I can’t help but also think this could also be some design hazard with the flag placement. I would think you’d want a pretty large tolerance or gap between the flag and the bracket, so much so that even if a bracket was moderately out of alignment it would still clear it with ease. If the bracket was out of alignment I’m also surprised there’s was contact or wearing on the trains magnets/ brakes as well.

Wondering if internally there may be rolling heads. The states hold on operating says they found multiple instance of loose bolts and worse, incorrectly used bolts and screws. Any agency wanting to distance itself from such an accident may put more blame on whoever approved the use of the wrong hardware, whether it caused it or not.