Steel Vengeance

I hope this doesn't mean that getting Steel Vengeance up to full capacity is going to take a while, but I have a bad feeling it might. Fastlane with an hourly capacity of 300-350 riders per hour (about what you get with one train) not including downtime and a ride with that kind of demand would get ugly.

Also, they might find themselves issuing a lot of refunds for people that purchased in advance with Steel Vengeance on the list.

I don't have a problem with Fastlane even on a popular ride, but it seems like CP is rather willy nilly about the number of people they let in from the Fastlane line vs. the standby line. Some rides it seems about right. Others (Dragster and Valravn come to mind), they seem to let way too many Fastlane people in each time. There should really be a pretty defined formula based on the capacity of the ride. It's sold as "wait less," not "immediate boarding."

Not only is it not a FL plus ride, it's also not a Fast Lane light ride anymore either.

I would agree it's in indication that 3-train operation will not be a viable option for sometime.

Obviously, removing SV from FL+ is a way to reduce ridiculous wait times, but I see it as very temporary. SV is still listed for Early Entry, the Platinum Ride Nights are still present, and (as far as I know) the front entrance still has the Fast Lane sign. If I were CP, I would try to have three train operation by Memorial Day, but with the necessary adjustments to the ride system after the incident, I wouldn't hold my breath. Either way, SV will get FL+ back at some point; it's not financially viable to leave the brand new, highly anticipated ride off front-of-the-line passes for long.

The page still has a blank line ready for when it's returned to the list. It's just a question of when.

2019?

I guess leaving it off the website is a good idea until it’s ‘fixed’.
They can always add it to the signs in the park as warranted. Speaking of signs, I bet the sign shop was working overtime reprinting every FL sign in the park!

That blank line has been there for the entire off-season. I've always joked with my friends that it's for their 2020 project. But you're right, it's a matter of when, not if, SV returns for FL+.

wait, how much are the boarding passes to ride SV, and where do you get them?

$5 for 1 turn at Plinko for a 1:10 chance to win.

/jk from my understanding last Sunday handed out a limited number in the morning and then that’s it for the day. Who knows if that will be repeated this weekend.

I've never programmed a PLC, but the way they work is similar to the A/V controllers I have programmed. In a nutshell, the program is signal driven, that is, a signal at an input triggers program logic and ultimately sets outputs. As was noted earlier, the biggest change in recent years has been the abstraction of some of the I/O, so the physical I/O can now be on network devices; and the rise of safety-rated PLCs where the PLC itself contains redundant CPUs (which I believe are non-identical) so that functionally identical but internally different code using matching I/O can confirm they are getting the same results...and indicate a problem if they don't.

As for the incident...

I'm not yet familiar with Steel Vengeance.

But controls have come a long way. I know that IOE tends to monitor both the normally open and normally closed states on every switch, both for redundant signaling and as a means of detecting component failure. Blocking logic is extremely simple, and IOE is experienced with the safe design of systems far more complex than the blocking on Steel Vengeance. Plus, the ride just completed an Acceptance Testing procedure which should have caught any anomalies. The ride blocking system is most likely designed with both a check-in/check out system AND a positive train position detection system in place. Basically, the days of a single non-redundant proximity switch failing and causing a collision, as happened on Hercules many years ago, are gone. For the blocking system to fail would require multiple undetected simultaneous failures for the system to think that the station block was clear. The scenario under which such a failure could happen is, quite frankly, so complex that Sir William of Ockham would recommend looking elsewhere for a simpler explanation.

As for operator error, one of the requirements of ASTM F2291-17:11.5.4 is that "safeguards shall remain effective for all operating modes." That is, if the ride's Safety Related Control System provides block protection, that block protection is to remain active even if the ride is operating in manual mode. It's also worth noting that when ASTM F2291:11, the section on Safety Related Control Systems, was rewritten a few years ago, Brian Ondrey of IOE was a member of the task group that did the re-write. Operator error might be possible, but with the design of modern controls, it's highly unlikely.

That leaves a mechanical fault, in which some mechanical system either didn't do what it was supposed to do, did something it wasn't supposed to, or just plain broke. To me, this is the simplest explanation, although I don't know enough about the ride's mechanicals yet to make an educated guess as to the nature of the failure.

That said, I have heard that the preliminary investigation determined that the incident *was* caused by a mechanical failure.

As for where I have been...
I read this forum as regularly as ever, but find my time to post responses is quite limited, particularly since there are many times when I can read, but can't post. Rest assured, though, I'm still around...!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Dave do the advancing wheels have brakes? Could it have been a failure of an advancing wheel brake that allowed it to freewheel so that the train coasted into the other one?

Cargo Shorts said:
$5 for 1 turn at Plinko for a 1:10 chance to win.

/jk from my understanding last Sunday handed out a limited number in the morning and then that’s it for the day. Who knows if that will be repeated this weekend.

Do you know if they were handing out tickets at the ride entrance? I’m flying up from Florida today to visit the park tomorrow. Trying to figure out a game plan.

Also, does anybody have info on if they’re letting people with daily admission through the rear entrance to the park? I’m going to be there early to make it for general public opening, but want to reduce my travel time to the back of the park from the front main entrance.

^My understanding is that they open the rear lot at 9:30, but if you can't get back there by car, you can park in the main lot and walk back along the beach boardwalk.

I am only able to make it to the park once this year and am going next Tuesday. If SV has a long wait (over 3 hours), is it worth riding or should I save it for next year and get my rides in on everything else instead?

Good to see you chime in Dave. My initial hunch was that it was also that the failure was more mechanical in nature and possibly something caused by whatever was wrong with Chess when it was making its last circuit right before the incident (since it was making a ton of noise and my initial thought hearing it was just a bad wheel or two). I thought maybe whatever was wrong with that train clobbered something along the brake run,hampering the ability to properly stop Digger. I sort of tossed my theory out though when they were testing both of these trains just a few hours later and re-opened (with Chess running no less) later that night. I also wondered that if there was so much damage there that a train could no longer be stopped why some sort of signal wouldn't have been outside of normal and the the train would not have stopped either on the lift of at the midcourse. The fact that they tested and opened so quickly after the fact seems to discredit the idea that everything on the brake run was all torn up, there was a major chassis issue with one of the trains, or anything along those lines.

I took this video on Sunday which shows the brakes and tires outside of the station along with the slowing of the train coming in during single train operation. I don't see any signs that there was a major reconstruction or repair of extensive damage here the day before. There are two "stations" here I believe. The first (farthest away from me) has what I believe are multiple sets of fixed magnetic brakes followed by multiple sets of friction brakes to completely stop the train. There are also four sets of drive tires. The next station has two sets of friction brakes and three sets of drive tires. To me, it seems like a lot would have to to wrong mechanically for a train to get through all of this and not be stopped successfully. Pete's idea seems reasonable. But what about the other sets of drive tires and the friction brakes which should have been closed. Maybe the video will help Dave or others make a better guess as to what might have happened.

As for your question Gatekeeper 2013... I've been lucky enough to ride three times and the damn ride is all I can think about this week. If there's any ride on the planet worth waiting for, this would be it in my opinion. Try to ride it very early with early entry or jump in line right before closing time. That way you don't waste a huge chunk of your day.

Normally, I'm not willing to wait for anything more than 30 minutes or so, butt I waited 2.5 hours on Sunday, thanks to a storm that rolled in - and we sat that out without a second thought. I've ridden it quite a bit, and it's worth it every time. (also, the line is covered so we stayed mostly dry... until we got on the ride and the skies opened up!)

Italianstallion, daily ticket guests can use any of the 4 entrances at any time. But for early entry you need to be a hotel guest or Passholder.

Gatekeeper, the “is it worth it” is very personal. It is a great ride and how many reports of “meh” have you read? Maybe a handful. That said, no ride is worth a 3 hour wait to me. I require to many fluids and couldn’t possibly hold my bladder that long standing outside and I am just not ready to go the adult diaper route. :D

FL+, ERT or some other method is the only way I am likely to ride it the rest of this season.

Gatekeeper2013 said:

I am only able to make it to the park once this year and am going next Tuesday. If SV has a long wait (over 3 hours), is it worth riding or should I save it for next year and get my rides in on everything else instead?

It depends on who you are in line with. I, surprisingly waited 3 hours last Wednesday for it. I swore I would never wait that long for any ride. In all of that time, I only went on my phone for about 10 minutes. I was very fortunate to meet really cool people who made the 3 hours fly by.

In that instance, it was definitely worth the wait.

Out of curiosity, and since we are on the subject, does anyone have any idea how the line for Steel Vengeance might be on a less crowded day? I go on June 10th, and a calendar that I've used in the past that seems to be accurate (http://www.isitpacked.com/crowd-calendars/cedar-point/) says that the park itself shouldn't be too bad. My dad, who also went on similar Sundays the past couple years (for the 5k weekend) says that this particular date is a smaller amount of people. I just don't know if that means that all of these people will be in line for Steel Vengeance or not, if that makes sense. Has anyone noticed a pattern in the past with new rides and wait times on less crowded days?

As Cargo Shorts said, it's a very personal decision as to whether or not you wait. I was fortunate enough to be a first rider. It truly is a fantastic ride. Having said that, I probably will not ride it again this season, because no ride is worth more than an hours wait for me (maybe 1.5 hours). I'll wait until the frenzied excitement of opening year passes, and then head back over there.

Also, remember the park is only open until 8:00 -- so you have a couple less hours.

I'm coming in on Monday and staying until Thursday. Really curious to see what lines will be like for the first week of daily operation. Lines will probably still be long I imagine, but surely not 4 hours long hopefully...