Sky Ride Ribbons

But it is personal. Saying you don't support the effort, that its all wrong, and that those ribbons are tacky and not needed at an amusement park is kind of personal.

Like I said, I never expected to polarize the Pointbuzz crowd with this thread. Nor did I expect it to grow to 3 pages.

Edit: One thing is for sure - I hope this doesn't end up turning out like it did after Vietnam. MrScott's generation made the soldiers feel horrible when they returned. I really hope we don't follow in those footsteps. It's not right. *** Edited 10/8/2005 12:15:19 AM UTC by bholcomb***

^^ i completely agree. it is shaping out to look that way, but hopefully we won't go it again. =[

Hey, now wait one minute, MrBen! I hadn't even made it to being a teen at the end of Vietnam. It wasn't my generation that treated those returning troops the way they were treated. It was my generation that remembered it and that has vowed that that type of travesty never happenens again...at least while we're on the right side of the dirt.

No offense taken or meant, but I'm not THAT old. :)

MrScott

One thing is for sure - I hope this doesn't end up turning out like it did after Vietnam. MrScott's generation made the soldiers feel horrible when they returned. I really hope we don't follow in those footsteps. It's not right

I think that, as a country, we've grown past that. During the Vietnam era, the zeitgeist was that the government was largely trying to do the right thing, but the military went over the top in trying to carry out their mission. So, individual soldiers bore the brunt of bad feelings over the Vietnam war.

Two important things have changed since the Vietnam era. First---and this is partly *because of* Vietnam---the US populace is generally much less trustful of governmental leadership, and much more ready to blame policy makers rather than the soldiers who implement that policy. During Vietnam, the inclination was to blame the implementation and not the policy (at least at the beginning).

Second, the military as an institution understands its role in the context of a fully-televised/covered war much better; they realize they are fighting a PR campaign as much as a military one, so they have either done a much better job at respecting the line between civilians and combatants (which is hard as hell, if not impossible, in this sort of a war) or they have done a much better job of controlling media access, or both. During the Vietnam era, the military still operated under the rules of WWII/Korea, when there was little or no direct media coverage. The Vietnam war media coverage fundamentally changed the PR rules.

Finally, I offer anecdotal evidence. My wife and I are bleeding-heart liberals. Even *we* think the US soldiers are heroes. We think that they've been badly mis-used, but that's not their fault---that blame lies squarely in the lap of the policy-makers of this administration.

So again, I'd prefer to support the troops by bringing them home and reuniting them with their families. I'm not fundamentally against the use of deadly force, but do believe in the "Just War" doctrine---that war (1) can be used only to prevent a certain, lasting, and grave damage, (2) is only justifiable as a last resort, (3) has serious prospects for success, and (4) must inflict proportionally less damage than it prevents.

In the specific case of Iraq, based on the evidence I've seen to date, I am only convinced that the first and (probably) the fourth of these conditions have been met. I'm just not convinced we'd gotten to the point of last resort (though we certainly tried to maneuver the international community into believing that to be the case), and I'm also not convinced that the prospects for success have ever been clear, particularly given the nature of the political situation in pre-war Iraq. It didn't take a genius to figure out that a substantial portion of the country we were saving didn't want to be saved, and it's very very hard to win a war when a non-trivial fraction of the people who live there harbor sincere fondness for the enemy.

*** Edited 10/8/2005 4:22:15 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

we are trying to spread our wisdom, our beliefs, in order to help other people!!!!

First of all, I want you to know that nobody, regardless of their opinion about the war, disregards the ultimate sacrifice your cousin and your family has made. He served his country - and for that anyone who isn't proud of him should be ashamed of themselves.

What most people seem to have a problem with is that we are not in Iraq solely to help other people. There are MANY other places in the world where our help is needed much more than in Iraq. Sadly, though, none of those other places have anything that we want. It sounds harsh, but it is true. Not to repeat the obvious, but if there weren't billions of dollars to be made, we'd simply turn a blind eye to the situation in Iraq, like we do almost everywhere else in the world.

And, for me at least, that is why I get so angry when people say they support the troops simply by putting a magnet on their SUV. I and many others without said magnets care about our troops, and that is why this war is so frustrating. Brave and selfless soldiers are dying for a cause that is not as clear as the government would have us believe.

What happened after Vietnam will not happen this time. We have learned as a people that our soldiers are doing their jobs, and for that we are thankful and proud. We just wish that our government would do their job as well, and NOT put the soldiers in harm's way in order to make money.

Again, I don't want you or any others with friends and family over their to think that we discount their courage and valor. We simply want to honor them by learning the truth of the situation, so that it may never happen again.

Let's bring them home, as soon as humanly possible.

How bout we put little signs on it that say "Get the h*** out of Iraq"
But no I agree with that. I go to Cedar Point to have fun and get away from everything. We don't need to be reminded of it when we see it on a daily basis on cars and windows, etc.

I don't like it simply because it is so trite now.

Even worse, walking through the CP parking lot you notice most are NOT for the war but for something stupid like "Support Strippers."

It has become a national joke.

matt1027 said:
I go to Cedar Point to have fun and get away from everything. We don't need to be reminded of it when we see it on a daily basis on cars and windows, etc.

ok. i agree with what you are saying. you, as well as thousands of other people go to cedar point to escape everything. i can understand that. but what is everything? daily life? are you trying to hide from life? because the war has become part of American's lives. there is no way to escape it.

and since this is becoming more and more of a political argument/war referendum.. i am leaving this once and for all saying... i think it's really thoughtful and considerate of Cedar Point to add the ribons. It is a nice, American touch.

-- and to djdaemon .. what you said is true, and i cannot argue with you for most of it. and the parts i disagree with, i'll leave be. but.. i was just hoping other people [who have show to consideration to the troops] would realize how inhumane and ignorant they were being.
*** Edited 10/8/2005 6:09:31 PM UTC by millenniummystique***
*** Edited 10/8/2005 6:11:50 PM UTC by millenniummystique***

Wow, did this really go on three pages?? Come on...

Listen, I don't support the war. But I support the troops, who are doing what they're told.

As for a ribbon on the sky ride...um...sure. Why not? I mean, I'm sure any troops on leave who make it to Cedar Point (this weekend, I guess) will appreciate it.

Is anyone who doesn't support the war really going to stand up and say they don't support our troops? That's ignorant.

It's a nice touch. It's not political. It's friendly.

We need all the suport of out troups we can give them, i think its a great idea about the ribbons on the cable cars, i think about our troups everywhere i go. Congratts Cedar Point!!!

I think when people started putting ribbons on vehicles, they were meant to say to a member of the armed forces that "we miss you while you are away and respect you for putting yourself in harms way for us". It is really nothing more than that.

The men and women in the US military have no say in what type of war they fight in. They are there to be used by the commander in chief as needed. I won't get into a political discussion on the merits of George Bush. Our soldiers are doing their duty in Iraq, just as they would if there was a real threat to our homeland. Even if some soldiers may not agree with what is going on in Iraq, they are there in harms way doing their duty.

People like that certainly have my respect. And I believe that Cedar Point put the ribbons on the Sky Ride cars for the reason I mentioned in the first paragraph. The ribbons on the Sky Ride are a thoughtful and nice thing for CP to do.

*** Edited 10/26/2005 3:19:04 PM UTC by Pete***

*applauds* Pete gets it!

I work on Sky Ride i find the ribbons to be bad taste. I mean come on, not everybody the is faithful in this subject. I for one find that this is a place for all kinds of backgrounds to come and have fun. Not everybody that walks throught the gate are american, and to go on with the ribbons and god bless america at 9:30 every morning is in my mind not proper at all. I find that it affends more then it pleases. But this is only me. I am just a person low on the ladder and can't change a thing about it, But i go through it all everyday. Thats all i have to say, enjoy it and hope to see everyone out there this weekend for the last one. Say Hi if you see me on Sky Ride, and let me know your from pointbuzz.

Later,

Jeff

^ Although I respect your opinion. I have to disagree on one of the comments you made. Yes many people come from different country's but Cedar Point has American flags, banners and many other things to show pride in the country. The ribbons are the same thing to me.

My question to you is when you see an American flag in CP do you think it is bad taste? I would hope not. Regardless CP has many things in the park that are patriotic and the ribbons are just new additions.

Also its our country, I could give 2 sh!ts if a person form another country is offended by our patriotic symbols. If they don't like it they can go home.

I don't mind the patriotic symbols at all. I am just saying lose the hole god thing. Not all of us in the United Sates care Support that aspect of it.

What if you have a jewish person there? Yes they believe there is a god, but Their god and believe very from christian and muslims. Who are all in the park at one time.

All I'm trying to say here is that everyone has a religon, and that is great, But we should not favor one religon over others. Cedar Point is a public place. There is no need to bring religon in as a buiness part of the park. If you want to show your religon great do that, But as for the park it self it shouldn't favor a religon.

Very good point.

http://www.pointbuzz.com/cpplace.aspx?mode=thread&TopicID=15470

I'm a Canadian and I don't mind seeing your American flags and hearing your national anthem in the morning, why should I? If Americans came to a Canadian park I expect that you guys would respect our flag and national anthem, as I do yours.

I still don't see how the use of the word God would offend people, and I'm not even religious myself. Most religions do have some sort of supreme being or god, not just Christianity. Just because one has a different concept of their god, doesn't mean that they can't ask that God to bless America or our troops. The way I see it, the only people who could be offended by that are the atheists who are tying up valuable court resources sueing to get "under God" removed from the Pledge...

Magnum Jeff, and anyone else...

IS Cedar Point a public place?

It's owned by a list of individuals... it is not government property... entrance to the grounds is regulated...

Looks like a private place to me... but maybe I've missed the boat here.