Rude Enthusiasts

^Now I will say that's with your experience there.

For example, I went from Dayton to Carowinds opening weekend for Fury, and we stopped once on the 275 loop for gas, once in Caryville, KY just to fill up / grab a bite to eat (stop shows 10 minutes on Google Location History). Then from there we stopped again in Forest City, NC just for gas & drinks (this shows a 15 min stop), From there it was a straight shot to Carowinds. We left at 7:00 AM and arrived at 4:02. That's 9hr and 2 mins total in time across 490.8 Miles with only 2 stops with 25 minutes total. A nonstop mind you is 7hr and 35mins trip. So adding in the stops puts you at 8hrs. So one hour extra for traffic, etc. isn't too bad there

Going back into it though, that would have given me in total the 200 miles you stated overall. However, my stops were at 232 miles in, and then 266 miles after that stop (419 miles into the start of the drive). I would have had to double the time I sat somewhere with the car and potentially added expenses (sitting to eat food, etc.).

For a family environment such as yours, yeah it works. I can get out, hit the restroom, and fill up in like 10 mins. With a family I get that's not how it works, but with that scenario above I couldn't do that and make stellar time minus some traffic somewhere along the way.

It can work, but you do have to compromise and change some habits. For someone like me, it is nice to cram a drive in and go as far as possible and not stop unless absolutely necessary. With an EV it's more predicted / planned out for longer travel (which makes me lean more towards hybrid options to drive on EV for an extended range, but then have a gas engine to chug to the next stop / act as a generator for the batteries).

Also yes, I will stress spending extra amounts on a car for a higher NEMA adaptor, I also never said I would get a 70k Tesla. I'd get a Merc E class with high pricing before that, or a sportier car. I'd look at the Model 3 vs the S, even though I do like the S alot more. However, the costs of the item are a cost of ownership. I factor in the cost of maintenance (oil, etc.) with a gas vehicle, it's only fair to add in charging adapters / plugs / installations with an EV.

Again, I'm not against doing EVs, I LOVE the idea, but it's not economical for someone without access to a garage currently, and increased cost of ownership when just now paying off all debts to add even more debt than if I just bought a normal car in the next year, it's just not perfectly economical. It will some day I bet, and I'm excited for that day. Super excited.

You're still making suggestions that it's not practical, and I'm telling you after two years of living it that it is. The only impediment is the cost of the car. I'm not imagining it. And there is no "adapter" for the power line in the garage. It's $60 in parts and wiring if you're qualified to do it yourself. One time. After 50k miles between our EV's, we've spent $40 on wiper blades as our total maintenance budget. The brakes will last longer than I'll have the car.

People tend to adapt to the situation they are dealt with. Jeff has adapted his road trip habits to accommodate his EVs when changing from gas. I would imagine I could adapt today if needed.

However, I'm not ready to view EVs as being practical in my work situation.

I think the prospect of EVs are pretty exciting and while I'm not ready to make that jump from what I'm driving now, I will when the technology has gone down in price and the practicality of it works for my transportation for work. My job can have me driving as much as 300 miles in a day, most of the time in rural areas that don't have the charging infrastructure in place. In the meantime, those earlier adopters are paving the way development and improvements that we will most likely enjoy in the future.

thedevariouseffect said:

...it's only fair to add in charging adapters / plugs / installations with an EV.

That added cost is a rounding error compared to the fuel and maintenance savings over the life of the vehicle, with the exception of replacement batteries, which will be required at some point. Here they calculated the cost of ownership - including new batteries at $8,000 for the Tesla - to be 60% and 70% lower compared to a BMW and Mercedes, respectively.

https://www.afdc.energy.gov/calc/

A decent website calculator that is geared towards EV adoption.

It gives a lot of the variables that have been discussed to change for your specific driving options, location & car choices.

For me in the market for a new Benz, BMW or Tesla
In the next year, there's a .11 cost per mile tesla to .17, .16 cost per mile for benz, BMW.

That doesn't take into account European delivery program that basically discounts import tax for my situation although. Prepaid maintenance programs are also not addressed. The Tesla or Benz are my two main options now.

The site gives a lot of info for anyone doing serious car choices (albeit a government site slanted toward EV).

djDaemon said:
...including new batteries at $8,000 for the Tesla...

Something no one will ever do, I'm guessing. Based on even the early Model S batteries, they're likely to retain 80% capacity over a half-million miles.

And regarding "charging infrastructure," the average daily commute, round trip, is under 40 miles. Your "charging infrastructure" is your garage. That covers the vast majority of Americans who have to drive to work (of which, I'm not one of them anyway ;)).

But I'm not a typical commuter. If I was, I'd probably be on the list for a Model 3 already.

My days will take me from home, to Sandusky, to Norwalk, and as far out as Solon. All in a day. Other days I might have to go to Mansfield and Upper Sandusky and last I checked, Grandpa's Cheese Barn doesn't have a charger yet. I'd have to alter my 'office' to work out of my car instead of my alternate desks while waiting for my car to charge to get me back home. At this point, I'd rather take the few minutes to fill up instead of waiting.

^^You also hit the nail on the head re: the garage as well...That's going to be one problem for EVs for quite awhile.

That's just it; EV range isn't a problem...until it becomes a problem.

Of course, EV drivers also enjoy an advantage now that will eventually be going away. My fuel cost at today's prices is about $0.11/mile; Jeff's cost is about $0.037/mile. But the price I pay for a gallon of gas is artificially inflated right now. My actual fuel cost is actually $0.035/mile; the other $0.08 is Federal and State excise tax. For now, partly as an incentive to EV adoption and partly because there isn't a good way to collect it (I, for one, am not interested in a $2000+ annual registration fee...) but that's the money that pays for roads in most of the country. It's coming, eventually.

(Of course, most likely we'll get hit with some kind of use fee *without* a corresponding reduction in fuel taxes, so the EVs will still have the advantage....)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Your cost isn't artificial, it's what you pay. My cost is regulated, so it doesn't change. And when I have solar, my cost will be $0. And before you suggest, "Yeah, but you have to pay for the solar," the cost of my house without solar is $114/sq. ft., and with it, $119/sq. ft., and it adds to the value of the house (but exempt from tax assessment).

Your future is electric, and it's closer than you think.

^Again I don't think any of us are debating that, I think everyone here is actually generally onboard. However, I think our point has been that they're great, but they don't provide the same amenities as an ICE in some ways and are also in some cases not economical. I have made the point that at this time it's not economical for me, but it will be eventually and I'm going to transition, but within the next year or two I don't see it as a reality.

Bloomberg predicts that electric cars will become more mainstream by 2025 to 2030. However, Exxon Mobil, which is studying the threat of electric cars to it's business model predicts that by 2040 only 10% of vehicles sold in the U.S. will be plug-in electric vehicles and a report by the Federal Energy Information Administration agrees. Here is an article from the NY Times where this information was taken from and describes the trends and market conditions that affect the future of electric vehicles.

I'm going to lock this thread for being OT! ;)

But seriously, would it be possible to get a off topic forum so interesting discussions like this can play out?

Isn't it doing fine right here? It maybe off topic, but that's how real life conversations turn.

If anything is played out it's the discussion about rude enthusiasts.

^

;)

Even if it weren't for my great appreciation of land yachts I don't see electric working for me any time soon. Some of the places I need to travel are not likely to have many charging options. I looked up some maps. Trips to visit family in the hills would be tricky. Then the cost of the cars...if the cars start around $70k well, I owe less than that on my house. Certainly won't be paying that much for a car. Until you can pick them up used for what a cheap, used gas car costs a large portion of the population won't be able to consider it an option.

Jeez I was totally kidding! I thought the fact that I don't own the site or have admin powers would have been enough!

Or did I just fall into your cleverly laid trap?

I bet manufacturers are under pressure from ASE to delay/slowly introduce electric to the mainstream. There could be millions of people who would be without jobs if companies went majority EV in only a couple years.

So, what if in the not too distant future CP changes Antique Cars and Cadillac Cars from fume spewing gas guzzlers to electric. They wouldn't have the same feel, sounds, or aromas. Might as well remove them and look for their grave marker on the midway.

Dollywood, Michigans Adventure, and Kennywood all use electric systems for their turnpike rides. (Well, Kennywood's was a conversion then their ride was removed anyway.) The rides are more like outdoor dark rides, with a single hot rail supplying power to the cars. No more pedal to the metal, no stopping, and no more bumping.
No doubt it's a safer, energy efficient, and less labor intensive way to go. But I'm with you, jimmyburke. There's sure something missing.