Rude Enthusiasts

kylepark said:
Too bad the new sports complex didn't keep one of the old runways in tact. You guys could've raced there!

Sarcasm? :)

Gasoline cars. That's cute.

::Copenhagen citizen::

Motor vehicles......that's cute. :P

TTD 120mph said:
::Amsterdam citizen::

Motor vehicles......that's cute. :P

Fixed that.

Jeff said:

Gasoline cars. That's cute.

I give you credit for going all electric and I'd love to go that route. But you have a 70D...that would come nowhere close to my bike. I'd have to get a 90-100D which is way outside of the budget I'd drop on a car right now. Cars are more than just commuter tools, they're also a very easy form of enjoyment.

Pull throttle, instant amusement, and repeatable every time.

I don't care what you can do on your bicycle. I was just snarking about gasoline powered vehicles.

Until you are driving more than 5 hours away.

I've driven up and down the east coast in an electric car, 13 hours in the same day.

Was that with the Leaf or the P70? I can def. see it with the P70 given the supercharging stations and intense network built up there. If it was with the Leaf I'm extremely curious how the drive times added with a slower charging system.

The Leaf is a commuter car. The Model S is not.

^Exactly, but didn't know if the 13 hour drive was going somewhere in the Leaf with long stops in between. East coast could mean anything. I need details to understand haha.

I've been from Orlando to Delray Beach, and up to Asheville, NC (by way of both Atlanta and the coast). The stopping and time charging is not any different than it would be if I were in a gas car, we're just more specific about where those stops are.

That's fair. That's awesome that y'all have a pretty expanse network there. Ours is growing more and more as the years progress and it's almost to the point of full viability. The only counter productive item for me is the home charging + initial capitalized cost. If either electricity generation or the actual asset itself goes down in cost within the next few years I'll jump, but right now it's just not economical given my current situation. I'd spend more in an electric bill filling up at home through the month than I do in gas.

Soon though, I'm extremely stoked to see Tesla and others go forward (except Chevy--the Bolt is a car literally made for old people).

thedevariouseffect said:

I'd spend more in an electric bill filling up at home through the month than I do in gas.

How much do you pay for electricity?!?

I'm sure Jeff can speak more to this, but assuming 2.5 miles/kWh and $0.13/kWh, you would pay about $800 to drive an electric car 15,000 miles. Assuming 30 miles/gallon and $2.50/gallon you would pay $1,250 for a gas-powered car for 15,000 miles.

I'm factoring in upgrading the cost upgrade and provide 240v, 50a (NEMA 14), then the added cost of this vs. the 110v (NEMA 5), which is about $400-1,000 to install on the average. The normal 110v can supply about 40 miles of range per hour. My average commute is about 40-60 miles with some bumper to bumper which is marginal...However every now and then I can take longer commutes depending on work / etc, which I would want a quicker charge (I could turn around and drive to Northern Ohio overnight, etc.). I would want that assurance

An easier assumption is about 370 miles every 2 weeks, give or take. The tank I fill is roughly 10 gallons or so every fill up (370 / 10 = 36). Normal gas prices for me fluctuate about 2.20-2.50 ppg (Costco local) depending on time of year / demand. I typically fill up every 2 / 3 weeks

Electric for me is $00.0253 per kWh. However with additional charges it's actually quite a bit more. For example, I have a flat charge, the Ohio Delivery Riders, and then a Supplier Charge (Star Energy partners). My total electric bill for last month for the three of us was 173.56 (or 57.85 per person equally split). This moreover equates to about a $00.1198 per kWh charge.

Then from there, I live with two roomates who split the cost of the house. The garage is currently taken by my one roomate with a convertible. He pays a larger portion of rent for the master bedroom + garage. Lets say I then install this. I'm going to want to put the car into the garage so some local suburb asshole kid doesn't come up and unplug it while it sits in my driveway or on the road (also probably stupid to even get a cable this long). So now my monthly living expenses are up a tad (not much--but considerable).

So if I upgrade, using my above numbers.

Lets say: 400 in initial cost to upgrade the house (hell I may even be able to do it on my own given the breaker box is in a utility room in the garage itself--but lets factor it to be sure). About 45 a month in electricity costs (compared to a normal $20.00-30.00 fillup at Costco), and now added monthly costs (probably another 40 bucks I think is what we determined the garage to be). We haven't even factored into the cost of the loan (my car is currently completely paid off in a week--extremely happy there), or insurance which could go either way.

So right now my monthly car expense is gas + insurance of 130.00. If I add the Tesla, lets say insurance remains the same. I would pay 185 in operating costs (55 more already), then add in the charging cost, and then the loan's capitalized costs.

At this point, it's just not an economical viability. Maybe soon, I'm extremely optimistic, and I'd LOVE to have one and actually see EVs become the dominant mode of transportation and let ICE engines be more of a hobby / enthusiast crowd. That's a huge step forward I'm hoping to see in our lifetime. Right now though, it's not in the budget

Even if we factor out the loan, lets say I remove that as it will be an asset after, that's still 219 per month over the cost over the first 12 months, or even removing the installation is 180, which is still 55 higher, which would give me a whole tank and a half.

It's awesome, but not economical yet.

I contend that electric cars will very quickly take over as soon as charging time approaches pumping a tank of gas time. I think it may be here in about 2 auto design cycles. Interesting developments from an Israeli startup store-dot.com

Jeff said:
The stopping and time charging is not any different than it would be if I were in a gas car, we're just more specific about where those stops are.

Well, I guess it depends how often you like to stop and how long you like to take a break. A Model S takes about 40 minutes for an 80% charge and over an hour for a 100% charge at a charging station, right? If I take a longer road trip in my Diesel TDI I can go over 550 miles per tank and fill it in 5 minutes. So my stops can be much further apart and much shorter, the time I want to rest is typically much less time than the time I would be forced to wait to charge the battery.

If it takes an hour at a normal charging station, I wonder how long it takes for a supercharger. Unless that is a supercharger.

Yeah, the time spent charging is nowhere near as quick as a gas station fill up. As Pete notes, the last ~20% of charging takes a lot longer than the first ~80%. So even "topping off" your battery will take significantly longer than if you were burning dinosaurs.

Though if you're someone who uses gas station stops as an opportunity to take a break and stretch your legs, the extra time spent charging wouldn't be too noticeable I suppose. But I don't know anyone who takes an hour break every time they fill their tank.

There are a lot of misconceptions about driving an EV.

There is no universe where the cost per mile is lower with gas, even if you drive a Prius at 40 mph. First off, it's "free" when you're road tripping on the super charger network. If you drive 1,000 miles per month, and get 3.5 miles per kWh, and pay 13 cents per kWh, you spend $37 a month on power. The cheapest gas right now is $2.25/gallon, and assuming you can squeeze out 60 mpg, you can match that $37. For a conventional car doing 25 mpg, you're going to spend $90 (and again, that's best case scenario for pricing).

Yes, the cars are expensive, but seriously, are you going to sweat spending $250 to have a 50a/240v line installed in your garage when you bought a car that starts at $70k?

Regarding fast charging, you don't "fill" your tank, you charge enough to reach the next stop. A Tesla charges like a phone or laptop... slower at either end of the spectrum. We'll typically roll in to a charger with 40 miles left (about 15% on ours), and bring it up to maybe 200 or so (85%), and leave. This takes maybe 20 to 25 minutes. It takes 15 just to get everyone cycled through the bathroom, and if we are eating at the same stop, we inevitably end up at a 100% charge, which makes the next stop even shorter. But really, most of the time, you're not charging to 100%. There's no reason to... that's thinking like a gas driver.

Some stops are better than others, but my favorite is probably Atlantic Station in Atlanta, one of those big mixed use developments. Tons of places to eat, and a Publix.

I'm telling you... our road trip behavior hasn't changed with an EV beyond planning where the stops are. I know everyone has their anecdotes about how precious their time is, but in practice, it takes us the same amount of time to drive to Asheville from Orlando that it did before.