ride operator question

I currently work at another park and in the process of doing a park transfer to cedar point. I recently came to cedar point earlier this week and I noticed you guys operate rides differently than we do. I thought since we are coporate owned we all would work the same. Us and kings dominion work the same but you guys are different. Like for us to dispatch a train us the driver (person at operator panel) must question is load side clear, unload side clear, all clear then everyone on the platform must give a high clear before I can dispatch the train. And you guys have a dedicated spiller. For us speils are left for the driver (person at the operator panel) to say. So why do you operate so differently instead of everyone being the same

Cause we're the best Amusement park ever!!!

Well since I've never been a ride operator before, but want to next summer, I can not say for an certainty why exactly they do it this way. But here are a Few reasons why Cedar Point may do it this way.

It may be faster, By having 4(I believe that is the number of attendants per Roller coaster)

Each attendant is responsible for their two cars(average of 8 cars/train).

These attendants then can use the smaller amount work process to check to loading and unloading area for hazards.

And By using a uniform Hand signal (Thumbs-up), This can allow the ride Controller to watch the readouts for the ride and be able to make adjustments that would be needed to allow for safe riding.

This is just my theory though so i could be tottslly wrong

At our park we also have 4 or more attendants on the coaster at a time except intimidator which is supposed to have 6. 3 on each side but us as an operator at the control panel we are supossed to watch all attendants on the platform then once they are finished checking I question is load side clear. If its clear they give a low thumbs up and then I ask is unload side clear they will do the same then I ask all clear everyone on the platform must verbally say all clear and give a high thumbs up clear signal before I dispatch. And also at the person at the operator panel I am also the one giving all the speils

It would make sense for each park to have similar procedures under the same ownership though.

OK...few things..cp is all about safety and efficiency...these two things are a must compared to the other corporate parks...

Spiel is done by a member on platform, this rotates through the day to let everyone do it or prevent one person from making it monotonous. Sometimes a certain platform position will also be the designated spiel position.

Only one high clear is done. This is due to efficiency...the clears are put up in a certain order...for instance in my ride there is one host on load side of platform, two on unload. The unload for the last three cars is responsible for those cars and bins for loose articles. The second is responsible for harnesses on the first three cars and the dispatch enable panel. After the load position checks his six cars,he throws a clear up, then if the second host in order (bins host) throws his clear up. Lastly the dispatch enable host does his checks, and verifies that the clears went up in order, oversees his work, and gives a high clear to controls. Controls then verifies clears, gives the clear, and dispatches with dispatch enable. This makes it so everything is checked correctly and is accountable..if the unload bins threw their clear up before the load host, the dispatch host looks to him to clear the ride, it helps safety...also the few seconds from a ready, and waiting for everyone to high clear, it just a waste of time. Just throw the clears up when you're part is done, let controls do their thing, and clear and dispatch when time

Second...its called controls...not driver...you're not driving anything, you're pushing buttons and watching blinking lights. I have no clue who started that trends, my girlfriend at kings island says the same thing and it makes no damn sense. Also controls does not spiel, its a safety risk. The person in controls should have their eyes on the train, the train being checked, and the control panel for any discrepancies, observing proper panel functions, ect..someone on platform who is only checking restraints is only responsible for that and can multitask and not be too distracted or have a huge worry...let's say the ride throws a fault and one of the photo eyes was tripped wrong and the ride sets up and you`re spieling...one it'd be weird if you just stopped to take care of the discrepancy, two you may miss it and delay you're response, thus causing more of a wait hindering efficiency and safety, and three, you could just not be blatantly aware of it while spieling...

I'm not sure why the parks operate differently or use different terminology or whatever...honestly our system works the best and is the safest..I've heard horror stories at kings island regarding controls and operational (safeties/write ups for you guys) and they operate very similar to you guys as well...and your lack of efficiency and speed shows easily to us, you can ask any of us who have worked rides and have watched the other parks run...like to this day I still can't understand why diamondback still stacks...if you gave me my crew from 2011, interval would be a piece of cake...sure you may stack for the occasional guest illness or line pass, etc but several times every few minutes...unacceptable...

Hope this explains a few things

The main difference in why it is done different is b/c you guys used to be Paramount run and they still incorporate a lot of what they did in their operations. The reason I'm assuming things have not changed is it's more of a 'If it's not broken don't fix it' kind of thing. What works for us may not work for you guys or vice versa. But the main goal is the same to get people on and of the ride in the most efficient / safe manner.

I wouldn't say efficient...sometimes nor would I say safe..last year Firehawk had mandatory retraining because they had over ten operationals in one day. I can't believe stuff like that happens. My girlfriend down there thinks some problem stems from training, a bit from the fact that minors are allowed to be ride hosts. I'd love to actually look into both parts of the theories but both points still stand

Wow.. they got it down to 10 a day? That's pretty good. ;)

I see where you are coming from and that is also why I thought we operate different is because of the paramount ownership. Im not sure why we call the operator panel driver to me it just sounds stupid. But I do like the way you guys operate it is much more efficient than ours. As of last week our ride dept manager came back from auditing kings island and now he threw in another procedure that just makes us even slower now we do what we normally do eg. Load side clear/unload clear but now after that we have to say scanning and eveyone must scan the platform then we can say all ckear and send the train. I just wish since we are all corporate owned they would make every thing the same thoroughout every park that wluld be less training in the case of transfers and it would solve confusion

There's no need to make it the same throughout every park to help out transfers. Think about how many people actually transfer between parks. It's an extremely small number. Not to mention, if you were to change it across the entire company, now you're talking about thousands of people learning new procedures, versus just a few people if they transferred. If it works for a park, why change it? I like that Cedar Fair allows parks to have flexibility rather than a "We tell you what to do even though you never see us" mentality.

I agree a lot of the parks do things differently, and I have yet to be at a park that works as efficiently as Cedar Point crews do. One reason SOP may different from park to park- could be the governing laws of that state, and OSHA requirements for safe operation for the employees. I personally chuckle when I visit a Six Flags park and their "visual scan" process. I also agree with the remark previously that previous management could have influenced the training manuals. Unfortunately, all the parks are too far away from each other to have centralized training center- to have everyone on the same page. I found vast differences in SOP from Knott's Berry Farm, Kings Island, and Cedar Point.

Governing laws & stuff yeah that could slightly play never thought of it. And previous management DEF. is shown through training. Take the new paramount lady in park op, I already see changes, especially my old ride, it's getting ridiculous.

Ah well, CP still has the best ride ops :)

thedevariouseffect said:
I wouldn't say efficient...sometimes nor would I say safe..last year Firehawk had mandatory retraining because they had over ten operationals in one day. I can't believe stuff like that happens. My girlfriend down there thinks some problem stems from training, a bit from the fact that minors are allowed to be ride hosts. I'd love to actually look into both parts of the theories but both points still stand

I don't post much here...but I am a long time lurker on Point Buzz. I am also the Firehawk supervisor or "team lead." First, 10 operationals in one day? Please tell me when that happened...you can't because it is absolute nonsense. Never has a crew gotten 10 safety violations in one day at Kings Island, especially one that I oversee.

Second, Kings Island employees take notice on the differences between KI and CP operations as well, and believe it or not most KI associates laugh at CP operations. It's true, but its not because one system is necessarily bad or "wrong", its just because the system is different from what they're used too. I'm going to make a list of differences I have noticed in the past.

1)Kings Island calls them supervisors, Cedar Point calls them Team Leaders.

2)Kings Island calls violations "Safties" and Cedar Point calls them "Operationals."

3)Kings Island ride associates have to be a minimum age of 16, while at Cedar Point all ride operators are at least 18. So Kings Island actually has high schoolers working their rides.

4)Kings Island only hires local residents, while Cedar Point has the program and housing to allow people from all over the world to live and work on site. Meaning Kings Island has a much more limited group, thus the reason they hire minors to work rides.

5)Training is emphasized at Kings Island just as it might be at Cedar Point. Every year, new and returning associates attend multiple ride classes and training days. In service classes are also taken through out the year (review courses). Audits are also implemented to make sure every crew is doing their jobs correctly.

6)A Kings Island, along with the average 3 supervisors per ride crew, there are also selected "Certified Trainers" that are designated to training new associates at certain positions. No associate is allowed to train another unless they are a "CT" or is a supervisor. Becoming a "CT" comes with no pay increase but is considered another step to a promotion.

7)From talking to a couple friends who are TL's at Cedar Point, the average ride crew at Cedar Point seems to be smaller then the ones at Kings Island. Firehawk alone has over 40 people hired on to it, with it needing around 16 to operate smoothly. The average crew at KI has around 30-35 people.

8)The dispatch order for a train is also much different between the two parks. Kings Island has something called the "Triangle of clears." Basically the triangle of clears is the order in which the operators should put their thumbs up and say clear. First the attendants on the floor would say clear once all associates are in their designated positions, then co-dispatch would say clear only after the operators on the floor are clear. Finally the driver will re-scan and dispatch it. Meaning you have 2 people re-scanning the other associates work. It doesn't take much time and doesn't effect capacity at all.

9)Kings Island calls them drivers, Cedar Point calls them controls. Becoming control trained on a coaster at Kings Island is also a longer and more tedious process. I was shocked to hear that new associates at CP get trained to operate controls within their first few weeks. KI takes that position more seriously, it can take months or even multiple seasons to do. It all depends on an associates work ethic and performance.

I can keep going and going, but the fact is that they are different. Whether that be for the bad or good. One thing is for certain though, they are both very safe systems.

cody339 said:

thedevariouseffect said:...last year Firehawk had mandatory retraining because they had over ten operationals in one day.

I am also the Firehawk supervisor or "team lead." First, 10 operationals in one day? Please tell me when that happened...you can't because it is absolute nonsense.

Did the Firehawk crew have mandatory retraining last year or not?

All info about your park is either first hand through asking, or through girlfriend and her crew and she's been a lifer at the park, honestly trusting her here, and she's not the only one I've heard this from. Anyways my response.

1. Ok

2. Ok who cares

3. Because hiring a 16 y/o to run amusement park rides is a great idea, also might I add you need majors to run certain rides, and I believe certain positions (tower is an all major crew). Sorry but blue tags do some really stupid stuff down there at KI

4. Again, hiring minors for a safety position, not the best decision

5. Yes you have a few days of training at the start of the season and most of you get certified and practice hitting interval (in firehawk it means when your previous train stacks). Cedar Point, leadership is usually there almost a month+ early to ge their training and common ground and also help with park cleanup and setup. Normal first year ride ops have about two weeks worth of basically OC's and briefings before the park even opens. Then there's the day before opening day where basically you work the ride as if it's open, and that's an OC. So our crews have had a long time practicing interval, speiling to empty people (basically the rest of the crew haha), and then breaks, rotations, ect. Then we have opening week versus just a weekend where we can start getting used to loaded restraints. Usually by one to two weeks efficiency sets in fully.

6. Ok, that's pretty much the same, you have the TL, ATL, & designated "In Charges"

7. That's because CP uses bare minimum+staffing to accomodate days off to keep things going, overstaffing leads to extras like Planet Snoopy/Tower did this year by putting extras around Starlight. Extra people means more money, which means less profit. Makes sense right?

8. Triangle of clears sounds pretty lame, FYI. Also clears are done in order here too. On Corkscrew (my main ride) there was one load op who checked his six cars (12 restraints) and puts his clear up. Next is unload 2 (bins). This person locks the back three cars, checks their restraints, makes sure load 1's restraints are locked (pedal check), and is in control of the bins. Once his seats are checked and ready and load op has his clear up he puts his clear up. Load 1 (Dispatch) is in control of dispatch enable to park and dispatch a train, in charge of gates (our gates are automatic btw and not controls so he can watch the ride in motion or pay attention to other more critical things, not gates). The train parks, gates automatically open at the same time unless we set them to close, he will unlock/relock those three cars and check their restraints. When Load one and Unload 2 give their clears in order, he scans train and ok's it's dispatch and gives all clear to controls, where controls has watched waiting, gives the final ok and dispatches the ride. We call ours order of clears, sounds a bit better honestly. Similar system except for that scan crap you do that reminds me of Six Flag's visual scan. Ride ops should be scanning always anyways, and this extra time, yes just a few extra seconds each dispatch, but it adds up. Extra time means fewer dispatches which means fewer riders which means less capacity. Efficiency and safety are KEY to rides

9. Controls is a big deal, they must do all other positions first, do a brake run walk, and lift walk, take the courses, and take the visuals test. Also might I add we were doing it two weeks before the park opened for training. Btw it's controls, not driver, you're not driving anything, you sound really stupid

Lastly, it is bad, it's innefficient and not maximized, and somewhat lame. KI doesn't spiel like CP, their ride ops aren't efficient, and the safety record doesn't speak like at CP. Take my trip to KI last weekend. Windseeker has two ops for plat and then a third that does plat and controls. The person in controls for major rides should NEVER be out of controls. Also anytime restraints needed unlocked and relocked he had to stop checking his restraints to go unlock that sector of windseeker, terribly inefficient, which created almost a 7 minute standby time before dispatch. Also minors working a safety position has never been too keen on me, I've seen blue tags do completely stupid stuff or just be downright immature but whatever, not my decision. I look at it as, what could CP crews do if we had the park. Just saying but take our gatekeeper crew this year and put them on any of your rides, it'd be a no contest, and that's all that needs said, and it's somewhat disappointing. Ah well

Btw don't get any "safeties" this year at firehawk, I'll be watching :)

^When I made that list I did not intend to bash Cedar Points operations. I was just listing differences I have noticed, not saying one system was better than another.

Also, your girlfriend doesn't know much if she actually thinks Firehawk had 10 safety violations in one day. To actually believe that is laughable. I have worked that ride the total of 5 seasons I have worked at Kings Island. Stop believing that.

Firehawk is different ride than most, and operates differently than any ride at both KI and CP. You can't just "stack" trains, considering it has only two trains and a dual station. Never is a train actually completely stopped in the break run just because of a delay in dispatch. Don't talk about the ride, especially in how it operates, if you have no clue.

Minors are hired just because that HAVE to be. If Kings Island only allowed 18 yeear olds to operate rides, they would be highly understaffed. Remember, Kings Island doesnt have programs to allow random foreigners from all over the world come and work. Fact is, don't bash another parks system unless you know how it operates. Kings Island's system runs very safely and efficiently, along with Cedar Points.

I have been to Cedar Point multiple times and I never leave without a complaint about their operations, Cedar Point is far away from "perfect," talk to most KI ride ops and they would say the same.

45Wheelgun said:

cody339 said:

thedevariouseffect said:...last year Firehawk had mandatory retraining because they had over ten operationals in one day.

I am also the Firehawk supervisor or "team lead." First, 10 operationals in one day? Please tell me when that happened...you can't because it is absolute nonsense.

Did the Firehawk crew have mandatory retraining last year or not?

No.

Ok...it doesn't delay in dispatch....LMFAO

Explain to me how then I sat on the brake run for a bit there, verus dispatch after dispatch. Technically you should be able to dispatch a bit into the second block after it drops off of the lift so by the time the next train reaches the block set at the top of the hill the next train is already clear of the ahead block, but does that happen, hell no. KI couldn't do it if they tried and the ride is a vekoma dutchman, they suck anyways. Your PPH I move in a half an hour easily and that's your at full perfect capacity, it's pathetic.

You also can't say you don't have plenty of safeties because I have heard it several times from several ride ops and lifers I'm friends with. I've been there when there was a safety and it was downright pathetic. And I stand slightly corrected. In 2011 and I quote "29 safeties in as many days happened." Also and I quote after asking if mando retraining did happen "I'd assume so, I know it changed how they had to check restraints and all that." That is downright PATHETIC and disappointing. That means that your crew in 2011 basically every day had a safety violation that if was not caught or prevented by a safety system or other ride op, someones's ride was jeopradized. Downright pathetic. I NEVER have I seen this at CP, it doesn't happen. My crew, two operationals all season, that was it, two out of my whole crew for the full 2011 season. But 29 by your crew of 40 or so happening for a whole month?? You're not painting yourself a good picture mate, especially if you were supervisor under that period as well in 2011. Pretty bad leadership there if you'd ask me.

Actually corkscrew can get an operational. It's called ****ty seatbelts, next question.

Two, I have asked four people and got practically the same answer. When I'm at the park this weekend I'll ask again other people I know.

Also, no Block A is station, Block B is station end to almost top of lift, Block C is top of lift to brakes, and I believe there is a D block from brakes to station I'm almost positive. However capacity stating you should be able to send a train while it is in block C (after it has dropped off of lift). For instance corkscrew when the ride was halfway through the loop, we would dispatch, the lift is clear, the ride is mid course, we sent the train. You will never see that on your dutchman because the ride doesn't operate how it was supossed to because it's a crappy Vekoma and KI ride ops don't hit interval well or often. Hell you can't even spiel over a microphone while checking restraints...

Also I'm at KI more than you think as I'm closer and it's alot more convenient now as I'm stationed down here in Ohio. I look forward to posting a trip report here or KIcentral for you to see...This should be fun for me :)

It's ok to be angry btw, I would be too if I worked with a bunch of blue tags.