RED TRAIN ROLLED BACK
I, for one, am not surprised at all that it rolled back. I was there on Tuesday and saw the red train creep over the third hill at about 2 miles an hour. I was praying every time that it would make it over so that I could get my first ride that day.
Two words: Water Dummies!
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Millennium Force: As fast as a male horsefly!
Two words: Water Dummies!
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Millennium Force: As fast as a male horsefly!
Everyone keeps mentioning the water dummies-
do you have any idea how time consuming that would be for the employees to have to use them for every warm up? They are not light either I am sure-if the rollback thing only seems to be happening on occasion I can understand them not using the dummies
to fill them-lock them in-get them out-
dont forget the train would have to be on the main track too-
time....time...time...
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Welcome back Raptor riders-how was your flight??
Correct me if I am wrong, but as a customer, this is what you can expect (or give them leaway) them to do during the one hour between when the park opens, and when they open the gates.
Many parks rope off the areas, so you are not able to go through the park. Even though they open the gates an hour before, you are corralled into an area and can't get in line. CP at least allows you to get in line. So the time...time...time... is that hour from when you are allowed to get in line and the time that they start running passengers.
Jeff (or other people who have been to SFDL): how long did it take the crew of S:ROS to test with the water-dummies?
"E"
Many parks rope off the areas, so you are not able to go through the park. Even though they open the gates an hour before, you are corralled into an area and can't get in line. CP at least allows you to get in line. So the time...time...time... is that hour from when you are allowed to get in line and the time that they start running passengers.
Jeff (or other people who have been to SFDL): how long did it take the crew of S:ROS to test with the water-dummies?
"E"
Well in the mornings they test Gemini & Wildcat with sandbags. Do you think sandbagging MF would work or not? (sandbagging on Wildcat is tough work, lots of cars and lots of heavy sandbags)
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Natalie
ATL Zone 3 Sweeps 2000
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Natalie
ATL Zone 3 Sweeps 2000
If SFDL can manage using the dummies (they're not the most efficient bunch) than Cedar Point can certainly handle it. The "inconvenience" of loading those things on every morning is nothing compared to the inconvenience of having the ride down half of the day while you pluck off an entire train. I don't know what's involved, but getting those wheels off to remove each car has to be a pain, not to mention uncoupling the ball-and-socket joints between each car.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 23
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 23
why do some of you keep saying the third hill is 182 ft.? Isn't the third hill around 160 ft.? I had heard that some were saying that the magnum hill was the third, but I don't understand that.
1st. hill 310'
1st. turn
tunnel
2nd. hill 182.
island turnaround
3rd hill 160 something
tunnel
bunny hop
final turn
It seems confusing because some seem to be implying that the magnum hill is the third hill.
Just my observation.
Jeff L.
1st. hill 310'
1st. turn
tunnel
2nd. hill 182.
island turnaround
3rd hill 160 something
tunnel
bunny hop
final turn
It seems confusing because some seem to be implying that the magnum hill is the third hill.
Just my observation.
Jeff L.
It is the third hill. Just because the second hill is a turn doesn't mean it can't have a huge change in elevation. The order is 310, 169, 182, 100(?), 100, 80(?), 30, 60(?).
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 23
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 23
Here's where you're confused:
lift height: 310'
2nd hill: 169' (this is also the first turn)
3rd hill: 182' (hence, the nickname "magnum hill")
have a nice day.
lift height: 310'
2nd hill: 169' (this is also the first turn)
3rd hill: 182' (hence, the nickname "magnum hill")
have a nice day.
Maybe they need the water dummies when it is windy. On calm days, they probabbly don't
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"the Force of the new Millennium will be felt by those who choose to seek it.
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"the Force of the new Millennium will be felt by those who choose to seek it.
I was there on Physics day also. My pre-calculas teacher (who is a very trustworthy man) was talking with the professor from BG that ran the Physics day and they were talking with a knowledgable person from the park. Apparently one of the main problems wasn't just the rollback. Originally, I checked and at about 9:30am it was stated that it would re-open at around noon. However there was more serious damage to the train then expected. The wheels somehow were seriously damaged on the rollback, making the delay much longer. When we were on the bus to go home at about 6:15 we saw them start to test the coaster again.
After talking with the man from the park, my teacher said that the park didn't really know how to test it correctly. He suggested that they just put the water dummies in the cars to test, but the man explained that that wasn't possible because of time and money. I guess when the water dummies are used (according to my teacher) they have to follow strict guidelines when testing, but that's not to say they can't use other types of dummies. It wasn't a problem of wind or weather though. If that coaster rolled back everytime there was a gust of wind Cedar Point would have some serious problems. I know that weight is also a big factor, but there needs to be a way to test the coaster without it rolling back when there's a gust of wind. I thought that maybe the wheel was damaged before the train started, and that somehow caused extra friction or slowed the cars down...? *** This post was edited by SJS on 5/23/2000. ***
After talking with the man from the park, my teacher said that the park didn't really know how to test it correctly. He suggested that they just put the water dummies in the cars to test, but the man explained that that wasn't possible because of time and money. I guess when the water dummies are used (according to my teacher) they have to follow strict guidelines when testing, but that's not to say they can't use other types of dummies. It wasn't a problem of wind or weather though. If that coaster rolled back everytime there was a gust of wind Cedar Point would have some serious problems. I know that weight is also a big factor, but there needs to be a way to test the coaster without it rolling back when there's a gust of wind. I thought that maybe the wheel was damaged before the train started, and that somehow caused extra friction or slowed the cars down...? *** This post was edited by SJS on 5/23/2000. ***
There has actually been word of worn down wheels.
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America's Roller Coast
www.millenniumfpics.homestead.com
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America's Roller Coast
www.millenniumfpics.homestead.com
On most of CP's coasters, they use bags of steel shot for ballast during test runs. Many of the manufacturers do not approve of this practice for loading rides because while it provides the requisite hundreds of pounds of ballast for the ride, it does not simulate the weight of passengers, because the weight is not distributed well. This can result in damaging loads on various parts of the ride if it is not done carefully.
Of course, on Millennium Force, there is an additional problem: where do you put the weights? Put them on the floor, and there is no guarantee they will stay there. Put them on the seat, and they won't stay there AND you run the risk of overloading (point loading) the plastic seat. The water bodies are a good solution for inanimate test dummies because they more closely resemble the weight distribution of a human, which is what the seats were designed for...and they even have a center of mass not far removed from a human center of mass.
Of course, the problem is that the water bodies need to be securely tied down. One of those things flying through the air could cause real problems!
In the absence of water bodies, of course, human bodies make great ballast for coaster testing. Prior to 1996, that was what Cedar Point used most of the time for daily tests.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Of course, on Millennium Force, there is an additional problem: where do you put the weights? Put them on the floor, and there is no guarantee they will stay there. Put them on the seat, and they won't stay there AND you run the risk of overloading (point loading) the plastic seat. The water bodies are a good solution for inanimate test dummies because they more closely resemble the weight distribution of a human, which is what the seats were designed for...and they even have a center of mass not far removed from a human center of mass.
Of course, the problem is that the water bodies need to be securely tied down. One of those things flying through the air could cause real problems!
In the absence of water bodies, of course, human bodies make great ballast for coaster testing. Prior to 1996, that was what Cedar Point used most of the time for daily tests.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
One a side note, it was on of Intamin employees that sent the red train that rolled back.
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daniel j. haverlock
'00 Magnum Count: 35/442
'00 M. Force Count:45/310
spiritofthepoint.com
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daniel j. haverlock
'00 Magnum Count: 35/442
'00 M. Force Count:45/310
spiritofthepoint.com
Since people have said that intamins are weather sensitive couldn't the metal (tracks) be constricting and expanding! Since Thursday was a fairly cold day the track could have constrickted a little adding friction!!!! Just a guess any comments on this ride man????
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"Jesus will never let you go!!"
_Whiplash-
by: BeanBag
-Nater!!!!
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"Jesus will never let you go!!"
_Whiplash-
by: BeanBag
-Nater!!!!
I don't see how track constriction would add extra friction, but it might cause looseness on the wheels, whose subsequent jostling around might cause the previously-mentioned wheel damage.
Personally, given everything I've heard, I'm going to wait for the PM to ride this one.
-- Harley
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CP fan since 68.
Personally, given everything I've heard, I'm going to wait for the PM to ride this one.
-- Harley
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CP fan since 68.
The contraction/expansion of steel would be negligible at the temperatures they have to deal with.
Friction is most likely caused, like Jeff mentioned, in the bearings. When bearing grease is cold it is less viscous and "gives" less, not lubricating as well. Once it is warmed up it is thinner and works more effectively.
Friction is most likely caused, like Jeff mentioned, in the bearings. When bearing grease is cold it is less viscous and "gives" less, not lubricating as well. Once it is warmed up it is thinner and works more effectively.
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