Potential Disaster Transport refurbishment

Boo to that idea.

Part of the experience on the cars is the fact that you are driving what feels like a replica of an old car. The sounds. The smells. I have zero interest in riding the battery operated "Antique Car".

If that is the option, I say just get rid of it altogether. This is why seeing the boat ride leave did not bother me that much. It was a complete shell of what it once was...sort of like watching Jordan play for the Wizards. Just kill it already.

I know. Let's replace the train with an electric one.

Same effect, and same difference. Some things are worth the extra cost.

^ I agree, at 5'11" I don't really fit into the turnpike cars anymore, but I remember being a little kid and loving the cars just because of the sound they made and the smell they had. Turning them into electric cars would be a downer for me. 2013 slogan: "Cedar Point goes green in 13!"

As for a dark ride, I like the idea of it, but a themed ride going to CP scares me. Dark rides probably need a lot of maintenance in order to keep them running at full potential, and seeing how the park has detiriorated over the past few years with Giant Wheel lights, Millenium lights, Power Tower lights, and DT, I just don't think that CP would be able to keep a dark ride going. Sure they are fixing these things this year, but it's been about 3-4+ years without them working. You can't really let that happen with a themed dark ride.

As for a coaster in 2013, I really hope so. But we definitely do not NEED one.

I do belive that a 2013 coaster has a lot more potential of being true than the past two years. And what really gets me is "The Surprise" that was mentioned at CoasterMania last year.

I agree with SSL488, I'm pretty confident 2013 will be the year for a new coaster. CP likes to do projects in different areas of the park at once, I could see a coaster going where turnpike cars are, just like how all the rumors say. Then in 2014, I see a dark ride going into the old pirate ride building by Blue Streak. That would go along with how CP updates their areas together.

As far as a dark ride goes, please don't be pirate or Snoopy themed or a Boo Blasters on Boo Hill type ride. I think it would be very nice to get a nice boat ride at the point. There always nice during those hot days and CP would have a dark ride and a boat ride. That would make that area of the park really nice and bring it back to life.

What does everyone think about putting in a new pirate ride where the old one was? A new, well-themed pirate ride would be really cool. And it seems like a lot of people liked the original and are sad it's not there anymore.

^^^See, I wouldn't be afraid if CP put in a dark ride because I believe maintance is improving. I don't see the improvements stopping after one year. Ouimet and Hilldabrandt are well aware that the little things do matter to park guests. The big Dick isn't holding the park back anymore.

Shades said:
I don't see the Darkastle style as being family friendly at least in terms of young children friendly which seems to be the theme of the recent conversations.

Curse of DarKastle is very family friendly. The height requirement is only 42 inches and I definitely saw families taking advantage of that. Kids absolutely love it. The only problem some kids had was with the content (some violent imagery depicted), which could easily be resolved with a change in theme but the ride system itself is really family friendly. According to rumors, DarKastle only cost Busch between 20-30 million to make, which is about a third of what Universal spent on Spider-Man and about the same amount Cedar Point spends on their big coasters. Really, if I had to choose, I’d rather have a family friendly Universal / Disney quality attraction then another coaster in a park over-saturated with them as it is.

This is where holding onto the Nickelodeon license would’ve been a wise decision. I know not many people here follow what Nickelodeon does but they have a show called Avatar: The Last Airbender. It’s their #2 show (right after SpongeBob) and it appeals to a pretty big audience. From what I can tell, it’s their version of Harry Potter, an expansive universe that would’ve lent itself well to a DarKastle-type attraction and/or entire park area. It’s one of those shows that adults actually enjoy watching with their children and that many teenagers get into. It now has a sequel, called The Legend of Korra and after watching the first episode, I can only sigh knowing that Cedar Fair let go of something with soo much potential (in favor of Peanuts).

SSL488 said:
I just don't think that CP would be able to keep a dark ride going.

I feel a lot of that has to do with management and where their priorities lie (we all know Kinzel didn’t give a **** about that kind of stuff). I watched the video of Cedar Point’s Luminosity presentation and John Hildebrandt seems to really care about the park. If enabled, I think he will do whatever he can to keep the park looking and running great. The fact that Matt Ouimet has explicitly mentioned general upkeep as being one of his chief concerns bolds well for the park, especially since both he and Hildebrandt seem to be on the same page (both have mentioned the importance of the little details as a vital part of the experience).

SSL488 said:
But we definitely do not NEED one.

Exactly, I feel a lot of people are projecting their WANTS as NEEDS, as Cedar Point definitely doesn't need anymore coasters. It's like the kid during Halloween with a pillowcase full of candy claiming he needs more when he really just wants more, despite having too much as it is. I feel Cedar Point has sucked that [thrill / coaster] market dry and has become almost stagnant in recent years. They really need to concentrate on attracting new markets.

Maverickoo said:
I think it would be very nice to get a nice boat ride at the point. There always nice during those hot days and CP would have a dark ride and a boat ride. That would make that area of the park really nice and bring it back to life.

Like The Old Mill at Kennywood? I’m not sure they can sell anything less then Splash Mountain and not have it be interactive (at least, not yet). What about something like Scooby-Doo: The Mystery of the Scary Swamp at Six Flags St. Louis? I honestly think Cedar Point’s first dark ride (well, not their first but the first in decades) will be interactive.

Sause said:
What does everyone think about putting in a new pirate ride where the old one was? A new, well-themed pirate ride would be really cool. And it seems like a lot of people liked the original and are sad it's not there anymore.

I think Cedar Point missed their chance to cash in on the Pirates craze. Instead of adding Maverick, they should’ve put in an interactive pirates themed Sally dark ride (one similar to Challenge of Tutankhamon). The Pirates of the Caribbean franchise had elevated the popularity of pirates to such that it would have been guaranteed a success and it could’ve easily been marketed as THE attraction to bring families together.

Still, it’s not too late. Pirates are still popular enough and interactive dark rides are still incredibly popular where implemented. The appeal of such an attraction would be across the board. Everyone can ride (small children, adults, grandparents). People will appreciate air-conditioning (beat the heat). It can run during inclement weather (one of the only rides at the Point to do so). The interactive video game elements will appeal to teens. Children will love everything about it. Parents will love being able to share an experience with the whole family (grandparents, children, teens, etc.) and those very same families will enjoy competing with each other. Interactive dark rides already enjoy high re-rideability due to the competitive nature of their makeup but if it’s like Challenge of Tutankhamon, it will get even more rides out the the desire to experience the multiple endings. Management will undoubtably appreciate the additional revenue generated by pirates merchandise flying off the shelves. The cherry on top, they can market it as the RETURN of pirates to Cedar Point (something that long time fans will appreciate).

Really don’t see any reason not to add one (hell, even little Kennywood added one).

Someone said:
Something about adding 2 coasters and then adding a kids area satisfying the whole family. IDK, I can't find the exact quote.

That is not the same thing as a family attraction and it certainly does not satisfy the whole family. This is the kind of flawed mentality that actually annoys families. Adding big thrills exclusively for the teens / thrill seeking adults and a segregated kids area exclusively for only the YOUNGEST actually separates families. What that family remembers is Dad and the teens standing in line for two hours for the thrill ride while Mom is by herself (or with grandparents) babysitting (not riding anything or having fun). Of course there will always be a need for toddler attractions but to make a kids area (which still excludes the non-toddler children in the party) and say you satisfied the family is ridiculous. You need an attraction that the whole family can enjoy TOGETHER.

I've been going to CP my entire life and until recently, my parents hadn't missed a season since 1967. I also have a very large extended family that goes with us every year. Altogether there is usually around 40-50 of us ranging from infants/toddlers to 60+. We stay at the Breakers and get a lot of rooms for multiple days going to the for a couple of days as well. We come, as a family, to America's Rollercoast. We go, as a family, to ride the collection of world class coasters. There could be more things to do together at the park but its still a great time filled with great memories. The youngest kids will ride the coasters as soon as they're tall enough. And with a couple of days at the park, if they can't, we all still have time to enjoy everything as a group. I am looking forward to the family improvements, but at the same time, I'm grateful for the coasters they've collected for us. My point is, kids are less sensitive to the extremes nowadays and anyone of us has stood next to an 8 year old kid in line for TTD or MF. I mean, I was 9 when I rode my first real coaster. At the time, it was the tallest and fastest in the world. Magnum XL 200, 1989. Besides, no matter how many family attractions you add, someone is still going to be watching someone else on TTD. Unless they tear it down to put in a family dark ride.
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the direction and vision for the future. Just don't forget the coasters.

If they keep the old Pirate Building, then they need to move Blue Streak's entrance again. That poor ride's entrance is so hidden because of Pirate Ride and Raptor. Hopefully they can somehow make Blue Streak a little more visible to the public in coming years.

Skippy said:
Curse of DarKastle is very family friendly. The height requirement is only 42 inches and I definitely saw families taking advantage of that. Kids absolutely love it. The only problem some kids had was with the content (some violent imagery depicted), which could easily be resolved with a change in theme but the ride system itself is really family friendly.

This is where holding onto the Nickelodeon license would’ve been a wise decision. I know not many people here follow what Nickelodeon does but they have a show called Avatar: The Last Airbender. It’s their #2 show (right after SpongeBob) and it appeals to a pretty big audience. From what I can tell, it’s their version of Harry Potter, an expansive universe that would’ve lent itself well to a DarKastle-type attraction and/or entire park area. It’s one of those shows that adults actually enjoy watching with their children and that many teenagers get into. It now has a sequel, called The Legend of Korra and after watching the first episode, I can only sigh knowing that Cedar Fair let go of something with soo much potential (in favor of Peanuts).

The reason I don't consider Darkastle as family friendly is due to the scare factor of it. Seems to be considerably more intense than what a 3 or 4 year old would be looking for. Out of curiosity what were the ages of the families you saw on it?

Avatar was great when it was in its first run but that was a long time ago. Apparently my kids have graduated from Nickelodeon - I was not aware there was a sequel. I will have to check it out.

TwistedWicker77 said:
If they keep the old Pirate Building, then they need to move Blue Streak's entrance again. That poor ride's entrance is so hidden because of Pirate Ride and Raptor. Hopefully they can somehow make Blue Streak a little more visible to the public in coming years.

Are people leaving the park saying, "Gosh, I would have loved to have taken a spin on Blue Streak, but I couldn't find the entrance?"

Blue Streak is a must ride in my mind. I always get a ride on it, I'll even wait up to 10 minutes. I think it's a great coaster.

Jeff said:

Are people leaving the park saying, "Gosh, I would have loved to have taken a spin on Blue Streak, but I couldn't find the entrance?"

It's a hidden ride. Only the penitent man will pass.

vwhoward said:
I've been going to CP my entire life and until recently, my parents hadn't missed a season since 1967. I also have a very large extended family that goes with us every year.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to undermine what you're saying but this opening statement says a lot. You're not a typical family, you're a family of fans. Cedar Point already has you. I'm talking about attracting a new market. Adding more coasters will keep you (as a Cedar Point / coaster fan) coming to the park but it's not going to help Cedar Point tap any NEW markets (which is what they want to do).

vwhoward said:
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the direction and vision for the future. Just don't forget the coasters.

Cedar Point won't forget the coasters, it just doesn't need to be a priority. If they do add any new coasters, I hope they take out existing ones to make room. I fear the next coaster will kill the parks atmosphere if they don't; as they have to either cut down what few remaining trees they have, build over pathways or build in the parking lot. Not may options left since they already jammed way too many in there as it is without taking any out.

Shades said:
The reason I don't consider Darkastle as family friendly is due to the scare factor of it. Seems to be considerably more intense than what a 3 or 4 year old would be looking for. Out of curiosity what were the ages of the families you saw on it?

I'm terrible with ages but the kids I saw riding definitely didn't look tall enough. Still, it's all a matter of theme. I'm sure Cedar Point wouldn't put something as bold as a haunted castle in if they were to install that kind of attraction (I wish they would, love Spider-Man).

Shades said:
Avatar was great when it was in its first run but that was a long time ago. Apparently my kids have graduated from Nickelodeon - I was not aware there was a sequel. I will have to check it out.

It was a long time ago. The sequel was supposed to be on early last year but Nickelodeon got soo excited after previewing the first few episodes that they ordered a second season and some changes had to be made to existing episodes to accommodate this (they planned for it to be a single season, so alterations to the story structure were necessary).

As for graduating Nickelodeon, I did that around 2002-03, when they took a plunge. Someone brought Avatar to my attention and I honestly got addicted to it (A FREAKING KIDS SHOW). It has to be the only good thing to come from them in the past decade.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that this series has the same kind of rabid cosplay wearing fanfict writing fanbase as Harry Potter, one that would come to the park JUST to experience the new area (or whatever). Missed opportunity.

If Cedar Point adds a dark ride I can only hope they make use of the KUKA robotic arms and give us something like the Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey ride at Universal IoA.

If Cedar Point gets a dark ride, it'll probably be a fairly cheap interactive dark ride from Sally Corp. If it's successful, then I can see them putting up the same kind of money they do on coasters towards a Spider-Man or Harry Potter type of dark ride (of course, in a more budgeted form like DarKastle).

One thing that always surprised me was that Cedar Point didn't take the simulators from Geauga Lake and put in a custom made show (perhaps, an exciting version of Disaster Transport that completely rips off Star Tours and greatly reduces the footprint of the building? j/k). No really, those simulator cabins cost a fortune and would've made a great addition to Cedar Point. Maybe they could've updated them like Star Tour 2.0 and made them 3D with multiple versions of the show? All I know is that they would've easily fit in the old Pirates building or even the Coliseum Arcade (which could probably even fit a dark ride).

Skippy said:

vwhoward said:
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the direction and vision for the future. Just don't forget the coasters.

Cedar Point won't forget the coasters, it just doesn't need to be a priority. If they do add any new coasters, I hope they take out existing ones to make room. I fear the next coaster will kill the parks atmosphere if they don't; as they have to either cut down what few remaining trees they have, build over pathways or build in the parking lot. Not may options left since they already jammed way too many in there as it is without taking any out.

But the thing about Cedar Point is, almost EVERY coaster broke a record of some kind. All of them are unique for Cedar Point. There's only two coasters I would support getting rid of, Disaster Transport and the Mine Ride. I feel the mine ride takes up a lot of space and sits on a nice piece of land. Other than those two, I don't see any others being removed. Maybe WildCat but that could only be replaced with a flat ride or another wild mouse coaster.

Maybe a cool Dinosaurs dark ride to complement the Dinosaurs Alive attraction would be cool? Its a timeless genre that you wont really need to worry about getting copyright permissions for. The only possible problem that if done really well it could lessen the amount of people visiting DAoAI

Maverick00 said:
But the thing about Cedar Point is, almost EVERY coaster broke a record of some kind.

So what? Cedar Point isn't a museum (although they have one). The record breaking is part of Kinzel's ego, as he built for bragging rights, not fun. Many record breaking attractions have been removed from Cedar Point over the years, I don't see what makes the coasters soo sacred, especially if they aren't particularly popular. I'm only concerned as to whether or not a ride is enjoyable, not by how many records it broke. If they can put in an attraction that better occupies that space, then I say go for it. They shouldn't let history hold them back from making decisions that are in the parks best interest (take Busch Gardens removing BBW and replacing it with Verbolten, tons of fan service while still moving on).

Matthew Ouimet said:
These parks — and Disney’s the same way — have to be part timeless and part timely,” Ouimet said. “You’ve got to respect the legacy, but you also have to respect the world’s changed, and the consumer’s changed. … You have to respect the future, or you won’t be here 50 years from now.

Matthew Ouimet said:
Look, it's important to respect history but not revere it...and the difference is that if you revere it and nothing changes you won't be here in a couple of decades.

Basically the same thing. I believe John Hildebrandt has echoed these sentiments.

Skippy said:
As for graduating Nickelodeon, I did that around 2002-03, when they took a plunge. Someone brought Avatar to my attention and I honestly got addicted to it (A FREAKING KIDS SHOW). It has to be the only good thing to come from them in the past decade.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that this series has the same kind of rabid cosplay wearing fanfict writing fanbase as Harry Potter, one that would come to the park JUST to experience the new area (or whatever). Missed opportunity.

You are saying that Avatar has as the same kind of fan base as Potter? I don't see that. And unless the park themes an entire area to Avatar, like Universal did with Potter, I don't see people flocking to the park to ride the Appa ride like they had at Kings Island a few years back.

It is very obvious that there are three schools of thought here.

Build coasters. (Thrill Seakers)

Build Dark Rides. (Innovators)

Build attractions that bring in the whole family. (Parents & Accountants)

Comparing a seasonal park to a year round park really isn't fair. And so is comparing CF to Disney (even with Matt Q. on board). But if you want to please all three groups, you have to build something that is unique (not following a pirate or magic theme that has already been done), something that would be a record holder (longest experience), and keeps the groups on property for multi-day stays.

What is clear, is that everyone wants a clean park with everything running, and properly maintained (painted, planted, and lit up). We also all want value for our $ in these economic times.

If you compare it to the automobile - the inefficient, poor quality, high priced cars of the 80's forced the same sort of changes in that industry. Today, we have cars that don't rust as fast, get better miles per gallon, and don't go back for repair nearly as much.

I suspect that we all don't like to see rust, pealing paint, or burnt out lights at CP. In park food that costs as much as inket printer ink per ounce, or new rides that are constantly down due to design issues that should have caught on the drawing boards - or at least in off-season testing.