PKI will own Columbus next year... and it could be worse

On the side note of unresponsive ride ops, has anyone spent a day in Kiddy Kingdom. We have been there probably around 5 times this year and everytime we are there the ride ops have no interaction with the children and they look like they can't wait to go home. Granted watching a car go around in a circle isn't the most thrilling job but they could at least act like they want to be there. About half of the ride ops don't even say a word to the kids, they just check the belt and start the ride. The last time we were there, my son was the only one riding and the ride op still didn't acknowledge him. Luckily he's still too young to notice these things. Would a smile kill them? Camp Snoopy seems to be better most of the time. For families with children under 48", PKI seems to be the better place.

Sounds to me like bholcomb has pretty much sussed the problem in a way that an outside observer cannot.

It's paranoia, plain and simple. If they want to crack down on something, crack down on the stuff that is going to get people hurt. Recognize there is a point where you really are doing the best you can do, and anything more is going to result in severely diminishing returns. Understand that instilling unreasonable fear into the crews means the best crew people are going to not want to be there anymore, resulting in an employee quality death spiral.

There is obviously a new sherriff in town. It sounds like the result is not entirely good.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

BzBz...I noticed the same thing in Kiddy Kingdom. I've worked an area like that before and while it can be mundane I always found a way to liven it up. I really like kids so the interaction with them was the fun part of the job (I could have done without the parents).

While I'd like to see more enthusiasm I guess safety is my most important concern and if I don't think the ops are paying attention to their surroundings then I will be more than upset. It is funny though b/c you'd think the Ops in Kiddy Kingdom would go out of their way to be on their game since the Park Ops office is right there.

I tried to interact with the Ops a little while I was there. I asked them where they were from (since most were foreign ops) and how they liked the US so far (not that Sandusky is exactly what a foreign kid might think of when dreaming of visiting America).

But the disinterest you talk about I find everywhere I go these days. Movies, fast food, grocery, etc. I'm telling you that I think it is a cultural thing. Kids these days don't know hard times. Jobs are a dime a dozen. That is why Cedar Fair and other companies are going overseas for seasonal labor.

Again, if Disney can't meet the expectations that they used to exceed on a regular basis I don't know what hope anyone in the service industry has.

Anyone been to a Chick Filet? There is a company that still puts their employees first. Heck, they close on Sundays. Imagine that. A business chooses NOT to make money once a week because they feel Sunday should be a family day of faith and rest. They are not the norm, obviously.

Yeah we all know who that new sherriff is...COUGH!!! He's got this parks staff so scared to do anything because of lame excuses like cutting down on horseplay. I do think crew spirit is down alot compared to again 4 years ago, more stacking, but moresoe just the "I want to get out of here and go home". Not near as much have a nice day and smiles. The small things that say we appreciate you coming here come back again.

I have always wondered when CP would start to get to big for themselves and I think were seeing the early effects now. Hey here is the fix get another..... "-est" ride, that's 1-800-Intamin.

---

bholcomb said:

What really got to me, is all this is in the name of safety. Only, when I was at Power Tower, our Team Leader called Iron Dragon one day, because a kid was standing in the car while it was stopped on the lift. He was told to never call a ride during shutdown, and yelled at by one of the Managers.

---

Now this is really alarming. Your team leader should have been commended for being extra alert, and going beyond what is required of him at his ride. Isn't the goal of good management to instill team work into people, and have everyone work for a common goal? I can see how the ride crews get frustrated and indifferent by that type of managment attitude.

I don't know if the problem is the new "sherriff", or if Bill Spehn is just greatly missed. But I have heard some people say that Bill Spehn would make a great GM at Cedar Point some day.

Again, I'm sure that there's another side to the story, but being scolded for being diligent is alarming. I get the sense that not everyone is on the same team.

Our zone supervisor ended up giving him a safety cornerstone for the incident, but he was still yelled at for calling Iron Dragon during shutdown.

It's just if anything isn't done by the manual, it's wrong. That's the thinking a lot of the managers seemed to have. It's really a shame.

The familys around here all have their backs turned on Cedar Point.. "they build only big rides, there is no family rides" "why should I pay full price for my 9 year old when she is only going to ride 5 or so rides, because the park doesnt offer much for the 7-11 year old". Both of thoses are the general thoughts of several different familes I have talked to. Once, I sat at a party and heard several moms all agree there are better places to take the family than Cedar Point. When I showed a few parents about the new PKI ride, they were excited: "wow a neat thrilling ride, yet something everyone can ride and enjoy."

We make around 8 or so trips a year, most just for a day. Last year we forked over a large sum for a room at Sandcastle Suites, and the room was only ok, recently when we went and paid 89 bucks and got nearly the same quality at the Days Inn in Sandusky(I know, I know... SC is 'on Point' and the view, but last year we spent 150 dollars on a room at Disney and for 100 less it was WAY better than Sandcastle). We spent two nights at Sandcaslte, and they didnt provide room cleaning, we had to call 3 times to ask for them to come.

I havent noticed that big of a change in atmosphere, minus the fact of taking out all the trees and stuff for Dragster. I however would be alittle upset if the Frontier Trail/Town is axed by some big thrill ride. What got me was the removal of all trees for Lighthouse Point only for there now to be a big grassy flat area in the middle of the area.

Dont get me wrong I love thrill rides, but putting in huge rides that you almost have to make an entire trip down just to ride it because of long lines or because of breakdowns is getting old. Think about it, if you dont like fast rides, Cedar Point really hasnt built something for you in awhile. I remember when I was too scared to ride the big roller coasters. I remember hearing about Mantis going "why? Its just like Raptor, big, tall, fast, and has loops, dont they realize some people dont like huge rides with loops." I'm sure there are a few people who dont care for fast launched rides and feel the same about Wicked Twister/Dragster.

Going to Cedar Point with my family, and even I hear stories from older people of their trips to the park as teens, it used to be pack a lunch and have fun. Now isnt it you cant even bring your own food into the park? You walk around and hear people ticked off around Dragster because of the line/breakdowns(I heard alot of f-bombs dropped this year in the Dragster area) . You walk by the food and drink stands and hear people complain about paying 2.50/3.00 dollars for drink. I remember back in the day stopping always at the local drugstore and buying a cooler full of pop, now you are 'forced' to pay the high price.

I was able to attend Geauga Lake's "reopening" this past May... they seem to have idea "Its Gonna Be Fun." I remember standing there before the ribbon was cut and hearing all the workers talk about how much fun it was going to be to "reopen" the park. I remember walking around throughout the day and upon my exit from the park and have people telling me to have a great day and that they "hoped I had fun."

Cedar Point has been changing... and its just not the fun getaway anymore, espically for familes. Just my 2 cents.

To be perfectly fair, CP does have tons of stuff to do for families. They just lack a big signature family ride. Most of the rides require an adult to accompany a child, if the adults don't feel like riding, I can see how the selection is smaller. But, the idea of going to the park as a family is participating as a family, right?

I counted 35 rides for children under 36 inches on CP's web site. Add the shows and games, plus the beach, and there is more than enough variety at the Point for everyone. I think the emphasis on marketing big thrill rides has hurt the family segment of the market a little. It's mainly a perception thing. Plus, I think they need a big signature family ride. That will go a long way to turn perception around.

One of my days a the park this year was with two six year olds. They had a blast and can't stop talking about Cedar Point, plus they never ran out of new things to do. But, the casual visitor may not know all the things that the park has to offer kids, which again is a marketing issue.

I worked Raptor, Wicked Twister, and Millennium Force this year before quitting for personal reasons.

Personally, I saw how morale was low and fear was a driving force at work, and evidently I wasn't the only one. When you work 6 days out of the week and interact with so many people, you feel like you'll eventually do SOMETHING wrong and get written up for it, so you start to perform your job like they want you to- as a robot.

One thing I noticed were the huge differences between manufactures' policies. People get upset when they get off of Raptor, where the atmosphere is great, the spiels are personalized, you don't have to worry about being split up from your group, and you can take whatever you want in line, then go to Millennium Force where things are a completely different story. Riding Millennium Force isn't about fun anymore, it's about policies. Working a B&M was fun, working an Intamin was NOT.

Every day I asked myself whether or not there would be so much negativity in the park had Cedar Point decided not to install 3 Intamin rides. Then I ask myself if Intamin is even the problem. Who knows. *** Edited 8/17/2004 5:46:45 PM UTC by Italics***

That is just so wrong, italics. Fear is no way to motivate. It works quite the reverse.

I understand the need for rules and a system to enforce them, but sometimes it gets ridiculous what you can get written up for. There are never any circumstances as far as they are concerned. You can catch someone standing on a ride and call to let them know, like bholcomb stated, but you STILL broke a rule and will still get written up.

Pete, how many of those 35 rides would 9-12 years ride? I agree there is alot for young children to do and that the marketing of the park is hurting it, but how often do you see a 9 year old riding the rides in Kiddy Kingdom? I should have made my point my clear, the park does offer children rides, but for younger children... they are missing that middle age, between the Kiddy Kingdom goers and big roller coaster fan. When a 9 year has to pay full price but isnt quite ready to ride the big rides, it stinks. The park needs more Woodstock Express type rides - stuff big enough for preteens, yet small enough for 8 and 9 year olds. I have seen 3 different 8-10 year olds(who arnt into the the big coasters yet) go to the park and be bored, only for their parent to have paid an adult price.

BINGO! That's what a lot of us have been saying for years.They need more flat rides like the Bayren Curve, Himalaya, Monster,the late lamented Schwabinchin, etc.Yes they had multiples of the same flats over the years. Three turnpike type rides,two flumes two Calypsos,etc. They removed them, and put more high rides in instead of replacing them different flats.

---

CP 1984 said:
how many of those 35 rides would 9-12 years ride?

---

I know my daughter is not every person's 9-12 year old. She has been riding MF for 3 years, been doing Ripcord with me for 3 years, been riding Power Tower, WT and TTD with me for 2 years, and since the end of last year been riding Raptor and Mantis with me. And still riding many of the smaller rides with her little brother. I remember the year she was just old enough to ride Power Tower, that same day, she was just a smidge over height to ride Frog Hopper with her brother, the operator let her on anyhow, it was a slow afternoon.